MTP Transcript for April 1, 2007

MR. RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: Tough words on Capitol Hill over the firing of eight U.S. attorneys.

(Videotape)

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT): The Republicans are the ones who don’t want to have the hearings.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: The attorney general’s former chief of staff says Alberto Gonzales did not tell the truth.

(Videotape)

MR. KYLE SAMPSON: I don’t think the attorney general’s statement that he was not involved in any discussions about U.S. attorney removals is accurate.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: What now? With us, from the Senate Judiciary Committee, the chairman, Democrat Pat Leahy of Vermont, and a key Republican member, Orrin Hatch of Utah.

Then, the president and House Democrats square off on Iraq.

(Videotape)

PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: If Congress fails to pass a bill to fund our troops on the front lines, the American people will know who to hold responsible.

REP. NANCY PELOSI: Calm down with the threats. There’s a new Congress in town.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: And are 23 million Americans about to have their federal taxes go up? With us, the chairman of the House, Ways and Means Committee and author of “I Haven’t Had a Bad Day Since: From the Streets of Harlem to the Halls of Congress,” Representative Charles B. Rangel of New York.

But first, what now for the attorney general of the United States? The Senate Judiciary Committee is investigating as to why eight sitting U.S. attorneys were replaced by the Bush administration. Joining us, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Democrat Pat Leahy, and a key Republican on that same committee, Orrin Hatch.

Gentlemen, welcome both. Let me show you what we know so far in the public record. This was the attorney general talking to the press and the nation on March 13^th.

(Videotape, March 13, 2007)

ATTY. GEN. ALBERTO GONZALES: That is, in essence, what I knew about the process. Was not involved in, in seeing any memos, was not involved in any discussions about what was going on. That’s basically what I knew as the attorney general.

I never saw documents. We never had discussion about where things stood.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: And then we saw his chief of staff, the attorney general’s chief of staff two weeks later, appearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, and here was his testimony.

(Videotape)

MR. KYLE SAMPSON: I don’t think the attorney general’s statement that he was not involved in any discussions about U.S. attorney removals is accurate. And...

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER: Is what? Is accurate?

MR. SAMPSON: I don’t think it’s accurate. I think he’s recently clarified it, but I remember discussing with him this process of asking certain U.S. attorneys to resign, and I believe that he was present at the meeting on November 27^th.

SEN. SPECTER: So he was involved in discussions contrary to the statement he made at his news conference on March 13^th?

MR. SAMPSON: I believe—yes, sir.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Leahy, a very serious question, do you believe the chief law enforcement official in this country, the attorney general, has lied?

SEN. LEAHY: I believe he has not been accurate. I believe—I believe he has not been truthful. In fact, when some of these statements came out, first in the press, which indicated he had not been accurate, he came up to me at a meeting at the U.S. Supreme Court and said, “I, I want to come up and clarify this, have another meeting.” I told him I didn’t want any more of these private meetings where we’re told either half truths or untruths. I said, “Our next meeting will be in public under oath.” Quite frankly, Tim, I’m fed up about it. I really am. Just tell the truth. You know, in the long run, telling the truth is the best thing to do.

MR. RUSSERT: The attorney general is scheduled to appear before your committee on April 17^th.

SEN. LEAHY: That’s right.

MR. RUSSERT: Should you wait that long? If the attorney general called you and said, “Could I please come in next week?” would you accommodate him?

SEN. LEAHY: No. In fact, we got a call yesterday afternoon saying, “Could we come earlier.” You know, we had offered a much earlier date to the attorney general, and they flatly turned it down. We offered a number of dates. They flatly turned them down, and they picked the date of April 17^th. As a result, we went ahead and did our—planned our other hearings. Of course, the Sampson hearing, we’re doing. We’re, in effect, interrogating a number of people leading up to it. The 17^th is now the time. Everybody has set their schedule according to that. It’s the date that the attorney general originally picked. It’s the date the hearing will take place.

MR. RUSSERT: When did he want to come in?

SEN. LEAHY: He, he said he wanted to come in April 17^th. We, we had already...

MR. RUSSERT: When he wanted to move it up, how quickly? Next week?

SEN. LEAHY: Well, sometime—no, no, week after next. But we’ll, we’ll keep on that schedule. Senators have planned for that schedule. We have been doing our investigations leading up to that. It’s the date that he originally picked. We’ve accommodated him on that date. He, he declined the dates that we suggested. He picked this date; we’re accommodating him on it. It will not change. The hearing will be April 17^th.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Hatch, let me show you another comment from Kyle Sampson, the attorney general’s chief of staff, at that hearing on Thursday. Let’s watch.

(Videotape, Thursday)

MR. SAMPSON: I remember learning from the attorney general that Mr. Rove had complained to the attorney general about U.S. attorneys in three districts...

UNIDENTIFIED SENATOR: And did you think...

MR. SAMPSON: ...and the substance of the complaint was that they weren’t aggressively pursuing voter fraud cases.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: So now we have the chief of staff saying attorney general talked to Karl Rove about the performance of U.S. attorneys. Do you believe that the attorney general has misled the nation?

SEN. HATCH: I don’t believe he has. My experience with General Gonzales is that (coughs) excuse me—is that he is a very honest man. Now, I think when he was talking about that he hadn’t seen documents, he was talking about the e-mails. With regard to the general matter here, if Kyle Sampson said, in response to my questions, that he had generally apprised the attorney general of these matters, and after The Washington Post article came out, I called the attorney general and I said, “Well, what about this?” And he said, “Well,” he said, “I generally,” he said, “had some knowledge about this,” he said, “but I didn’t get into the details and the specifics.” And he—and he blamed himself for not doing so. I, I don’t think anybody who knows him would accuse him of being a liar. Now, you know, are there contradictions here? Of course. But I believe that that’s—it’s explained by Kyle Sampson saying that he generally explained it to him, and by his comment to me that, “Yes, I had some general knowledge of it, but I was not involved very much in the specifics.”

MR. RUSSERT: You know, it is interesting, however, that one of your colleagues has, in fact, used those exact words, “liar,” to describe the attorney general. Here’s an e-mail from Kyle Sampson which—from November, which lays out a very precise path to get someone in a U.S. attorney position without going through the Senate confirmation process. And that, in fact, got to the Democratic senator from Arkansas, Mark Pryor, who took to the Senate floor and used these exact words. Let’s listen.

(Videotape, March 15, 2007)

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