MTP Transcript for Mar. 25, 2007

SEN. SPECTER: Well, the integrity? Let’s hear what he has to say. We’ve read about it in the newspapers, we’ve heard about it on TV. Let’s go eyeball to eyeball with the man and see what his integrity is. As to his independence, there’s a real question that he has allied himself a little too closely with the president when the attorney general has broader responsibilities than most other Cabinet officers.

But I want to ask him those questions. The decision on asking for resignations really ought to be the attorney general, not the president. The appointment of new people, that’s the president’s constitutional authority. So I want to hear from him directly what he did vis-a-vis the White House, what kind of independence he showed, if any.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Durbin, as you know, the judiciary committee has voted to issue subpoenas for White House officials to testify before your committee, including Karl Rove. There’s a whole issue of executive privilege, whether or not those officials should have to come before Congress under oath. And I want to talk about some comments you made to the Chicago Sun-Times, and here they are. “If and when Rove is sworn in as a witness, Durbin said it would be, ‘reasonable,’ to ‘go beyond the eight who were dismissed’ and ask about his relationship with those who were retained, whether any political pressure was put on U.S. attorneys who did not lose their jobs. Added, Durbin, ‘What else was Karl Rove doing when it came to other activities, departments of the government?’”

Do you believe that if Mr. Rove comes before your committee, you can ask him about his involvement in any department in government? Is it—isn’t that a fishing expedition?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, I don’t want to go too far, and I think you’re right. We should restrict our, our inquiry in the judiciary committee to this question of the Department of Justice. But sadly, what has happened here has raised a question about those others who are serving as U.S. attorneys today who were not dismissed. If they dropped eight people from the team because they didn’t play ball, how many others did play ball? We have to ask those questions now. I’m sorry that we do. But on—reasonable inquiry would take us to that point of asking Mr. Rove, as well as the attorney general, “Well, how many other U.S. attorneys were contacted, either by members of Congress or by higher-ups in the administration and urged to prosecute matters that had a political side to them before an election.” It’s a—it’s a question which has to be asked at this point to clear the air. I have confidence that the overwhelming majority of U.S. attorneys are professional people, doing a good job and not political. But we really have to ask Rove and others these important questions.

MR. RUSSERT: The president is concerned about a “show trial,” Senator Durbin. If Mr. Rove agreed to come before your committee in a closed session, but did testify, not under oath, but misleading Congress in itself is punishable, would you accept that?

SEN. DURBIN: Now, that’s a point that’s been made by Senator Specter, and I respect that point, but, you know, look at the premise here. The White House says, “We have nothing to hide, but we’ll only testify behind closed doors. We want to get to the truth, but we won’t speak under oath. We want the American people to know what actually happened, but we don’t want a transcript.” These things are inconsistent. It’s time to follow the orderly process, the traditional process, and Chairman Leahy suggested it. Bring these witnesses before the Senate Judiciary Committee. They’ll be protected by both sides to make sure that the questions are reasonable, but they really ought to speak to the American people under oath and tell the whole story.

MR. RUSSERT: How about a closed session with a transcript which you then can compare and contrast with other comments?

SEN. DURBIN: Well, of course, if we had a closed session with a transcript, and it was unsatisfactory, then we could consider going forward. But why do we need the interim step? Why don’t we at least open this with a public hearing so that we can get to the bottom of it as quickly as possible.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Specter, is there an accommodation that can be reached between your committee and the White House?

SEN. SPECTER: I think so, and I’m working to accomplish this to—just that. If there’s a confrontation here on executive privilege for the president and oversight by the Congress, it’s going to take a long time to decide. The last matter took more than two years, so we’d be in the term of another president before the courts had ruled. This matter is so important to the day in and day out functioning of the Department of Justice that the air has to be cleared.

I talked to Fred Fielding late last week and made a number of suggestions. I think the president is wrong when he refuses to have a transcript. If you don’t have a transcript, senators are going to walk out and, in good faith, have different versions as to—as to what occurred. When you talk about oath, that’d be fine, but the individuals who make false official statements are subjected to the same penalty, five years as for perjury. You had the number two man in the Interior pleading guilty to that charge. When it comes to the issue of having the individuals appear before both bodies, I think we can streamline that, have one proceeding with a, a reasonable number of members from the House and Senate.

I would vastly prefer to have the situation public because there is a great public concern here. But it’s time we worked to end stalemate. It’s time we worked to find out what happened here, what the facts are. And if we’re dissatisfied with an accommodation, we can always issue subpoenas and fight it out in court, but that’s not in the interest of the American people to find the facts and let us move on to eliminate this chilling effect which now affects and infects the judicial system.

MR. RUSSERT: So you’re confident that Karl Rove and other White House officials will testify under some format?

SEN. SPECTER: Well, I think it can be worked out. I’ve said from the start that these White House officials ought to testify. The Washington Post has 73 examples that they cite in today’s paper, and Condoleezza Rice, when she was national security counselor, appeared and testified under oath before the 9/11 Commission. And I think, if we work at it, we can find an accommodation in the public interest. The bickering’s gone on long enough in too many quarters in Washington, and I’m, I’m going to work very hard with both Senator Leahy, who’s the chairman, and with White House counsel Fred Fielding to try to find that accommodation.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Arlen Specter, Senator Dick Durbin, we thank you for joining us and sharing your views.

Coming next, “The New American Story” according to Bill Bradley. He ran for the Democratic presidential nomination for president in 2000 against Al Gore. He now offers his views on the issues confronting our country and the world, right here on MEET THE PRESS.

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MR. RUSSERT: And we’re back. Welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

Senator Bill Bradley, what is “The New American Story”?

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