MTP Transcript for Mar. 18, 2007

FMR. REP. DeLAY: But that--I, I got to tell you, Tim, it, it--from their perspective, they are saying it's not a central front, but if you listen to the terrorists and you look at what the terrorists themselves are saying, they claim that Iraq is the central front on the--on the war on terror. We are fighting them, we are going after them where we can find them. Some say that the terrorists are coming to us because we're in Iraq. Wouldn't it be better--isn't it better to fight them there than over here or spread out all over the world? They're coming to fight us there. We are killing--and if you put up the chart of how many terrorists we are killing and how many terrorists we are capturing and how much information we are getting in this war, it, it, it would be a legitimate comparison.

And the biggest question here is, sort of what Richard said, what these two gentlemen fail to understand is the question of then what. Then what? The admiral says, "I want to fight them all over the world." Yeah, we're--we are fighting them all over the world now. It's not--we--we've got people all over the world, in Indonesia, even in Europe and other places, in Africa and others, that we are--we are fighting these terrorists. But the point is, is that it is a central front in a larger war. It's not segregated by Afghanistan, Iraq, Indonesia. It's a new kind of war that we are fighting. And, yes, we're learning how to fight that war. But to pull out and just surrender because it's tough and it's hard is, is not going to support the national security of this country.

REP. SESTAK: But if I might, just on this one point, the issue here is is our strategy working. No. There's been no dent in the violence. In fact, this surge is merely doubling down on a bad military bet.

FMR. REP. DeLAY: Congressman, that's just not true. The reports that are coming back over the last month or two has shown that, that this recent surge and this new strategy, violence is down.

FMR. REP. ANDREWS: By...(unintelligible)...percent.

REP. SESTAK: In Baghdad, it is slightly down...

FMR. REP. ANDREWS: In Baghdad.

REP. SESTAK: ...but it's like a water--it's like a balloon. You squeeze it, now we have more violence. But if I might, it is a different strategy that is being proposed. We know that this civil war that we're refereeing has no military solution. What this new bill does is give the date certain. It is the remaining leverage--the only remaining leverage we have to change the incentives so that the Iraqis understand that they must accept the difficult political compromises that must be taken in order to seize what is sectarian violence.

And second, it changes all the incentives for the Iranians and the Syrians that are involved destructively in this war, because we're bleeding profusely. But now, with the United States saying we're redeploying but remaining in the region, all their incentives change with the five million refugees of Iraq that have been dislocated, two million have overflowed their border where they don't want to have that instability continue into Iraq.

FMR. REP. DeLAY: (Unintelligible)...where you going to deploy to?

MR. RUSSERT: Mr. Perle and Mr. Andrews, go ahead.

MR. PERLE: Well, I think it is certainly true that setting a date certain would alter the leverage. Unfortunately, it would alter it in favor of the terrorists. If they know that we're going to leave on a date certain, they will adjust their strategies to take full advantage of that. You have a military career. If you knew the enemy, your enemy was going to retire from the field, wouldn't it affect your strategy, your planning? Of course it will. What a date certain will do is guarantee the defeat to the United States' effort in Iraq. Guarantee it!

REP. SESTAK: Yes, but, Richard, the point here is we're not fighting the terrorists there. Secretary Gates and others have said they're such a small little element that are insurgents from outside. Second, the United States should not just do what terrorists say and follow what they say they're going to do. Take the initiative. Go to where the adversary is--Afghanistan and Southeast Asia and other places. Right now, our Army at home is broken. Not one unit can deploy to a contingency.

MR. PERLE: The shift...

REP. SESTAK: This is hurting our security.

MR. PERLE: The shift in strategy is, what, about 30 days old? You're not going to give it a chance.

REP. SESTAK: We did.

MR. PERLE: You want to say now, before we contest, whether this refocus on bringing some measure of security to urban areas in Iraq, beginning with Baghdad, you want to write this off 30 days into it. That is not the best way to, to develop a strategy.

REP. SESTAK: Well, Richard, that's not what I'm saying.

FMR. REP. DeLAY: (Unintelligible).

REP. SESTAK: What I'm saying is, we have tried this before and it hasn't worked. We've put 14,000 troops in Baghdad with no dent in the violence since August. Second, I'm proposing a change in strategy...

FMR. REP. DeLAY: They should...(unintelligible).

REP. SESTAK: ...a change in the incentives.

FMR. REP. DeLAY: You've got a bill that you introduced, and let's just take a look at it. You said redeploy in any regions all over the world, including, if you can't get anybody else to accept you, you go back home to the United States. Now, that is a military strategy? First of all, have you asked any countries in the region that they would accept us in the redeployment? Because if you did, you would-- you would find a no. And the second is, then you say in your bill, only our special forces and our planes can go in, in and out. Do you think that that is going to create any sort of stability and security, where we're sending in strategic forces into Iraq, in and out?

FMR. REP. ANDREWS: It was--no...

FMR. REP. DeLAY: It is absolutely crazy.

FMR. REP. ANDREWS: Tom, with all due respect, I think I'd be much more comfortable taking the military strategy advice of Admiral Sestak than, than Tom DeLay. And listen, you know, we in Washington love to talk about what's in the best interest of the, the people of Iraq. We've been doing this for years and years. Why don't we ask the people of Iraq what they think? If you ask the people...

FMR. REP. DeLAY: Well, let's ask what's in the best interest of the American people.

FMR. REP. ANDREWS: Well, ask the people--let's ask--let's ask the people of Iraq, OK?

FMR. REP. DeLAY: No, let's ask the American people.

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