MTP Transcript for Mar. 18, 2007

MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday, the attorney general of the United States under fire. Why were eight U.S. attorneys removed? Did the Bush administration mislead Congress? With us, from the Senate Judiciary Committee, Democrat Chuck Schumer of New York.

And today marks the beginning of the fifth year of the war in Iraq. Is it worth the cost in life and treasure? Should the U.S. send more troops or bring them home? With us, former Congressman Tom Andrews, director of the Win Without War coalition; former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, author of "No Retreat, No Surrender"; Richard Perle, former chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board; and Congressman Joe Sestak, retired vice admiral of the U.S. Navy.

But first, the attorney general will be going back to Capitol Hill to explain his role in the firing of eight U.S. attorneys. With us, a man who will be a central part of those hearings, the senior senator from the state of New York, Democrat Chuck Schumer.

Welcome.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Good morning.

MR. RUSSERT: Will Alberto Gonzales survive as attorney general?

SEN. SCHUMER: I think it's highly unlikely he survives. I, I wouldn't be surprised if, a week from now, he's no longer attorney general. He has just miscast his role, misperceived his role. Instead of just being the president's lawyer who rubber stamps everything the White House wants, he has a role as attorney general as the chief law enforcement officer for the land without fear or favor. And on issue after issue, the U.S. attorneys is obviously the most prominent and most egregious. He's bungled it. And, Tim, if they--if Attorney General Gonzales steps down, the White House has a real chance to clear the air, to restore faith that the rule of law will come first and politics second in the Justice Department, not the other way around, if they nominate somebody who, by their reputation and career, shows that they put rule of law first, a person like a Michael Mukasey, a person like a Larry Thompson, a person like a Jim Comey. These are conservative Republicans, but they put the rule of law first. And I hope that's what the White House will do.

MR. RUSSERT: What is the state of the investigation? When will the hearings begin, and who will be part of those hearings?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, the investigation is moving along ever since it started when we were first told-- when we asked just the question why were these seven U.S. attorneys fired, and they said, well, they all had bad records. And then we got hold of their evaluations, and they were all excellent. And then we found misstatement after misstatement. What's happened thus far is this: The Justice Department has actually agreed to be cooperative, and this week the staff will take depositions of five Justice Department officials. Next week we will have them come to hearings. They've also given us all the documents.

Secondly, we have to get the same information from the White House. We've met with Fred Fielding. He is the counsel to the president. He said he wants to be as forthcoming as the Justice Department has been in terms of documents and witnesses. We've asked for Karl Rove, Harriet Miers, some of their assistants. And Tuesday will be D-Day because that's the day he's going to tell us whether he does this or not. I would give a--or I would offer a fervent plea to the White House to give us this information. It's going to come out anyway. There are too many people in the Justice Department who, who want the information to come out because they were so upset. Just last night we heard from his attorney that Kyle Sampson, Mr. Gonzales' chief of staff, is really--wants to come forward. It's a real possibility that he will voluntarily testify, and he's at the center of this. So that would really...

MR. RUSSERT: So Kyle Sampson, the chief of staff to the attorney general who has resigned, is willing to come before your committee and testify under oath.

SEN. SCHUMER: He has said that he wants to do that, and I think that's a very likely possibility.

MR. RUSSERT: You cannot force White House aide Karl Rove or former White House Harriet Miers to come before your committee, can you?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, we can subpoena them. Senator Leahy has said he would. He's the chair of the Judiciary Committee. They could claim privilege, but the claim of privilege is considerably weakened because the Justice Department documents already mention Karl Rove, they mention Harriet Miers. So, the way the law works, you can't claim privilege on some occasions but not on others.

MR. RUSSERT: Would you be willing to testify--have them give a deposition rather than them come formally before your committee?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, I think all that would have to be negotiated. The bottom line for us is they'd have to come under oath and tell us the truth. For instance, Karl Rove said that he--Tony Snow, rather, the president's spokesperson, said that Karl Rove has said that he was against the firing of the U.S. attorneys, the 93 U.S. attorneys. If Karl Rove says that under oath, directly to us, that's a lot different than Tony Snow saying it. The White House spokesperson had said, for instance, that Karl Rove was not at all involved in the "Scooter" Libby incident, and he was.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to Mr. Rove. He was at the--a week ago, talked about this very issue. Let's listen to the president's political adviser, Karl Rove.

(Videotape, March 8, 2007)

MR. KARL ROVE: Look, by law and by Constitution, these attorneys serve at the pleasure of the president and traditionally are given a four-year term. And Clinton, when he came in, replaced all 93 U.S. attorneys. But this is the right of any president to appoint people to these offices. They serve at the pleasure of the president, and my view is that this is, and unfortunately, a very big attempt by some in the Congress to make a political stink about it.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Mr. Rove's point is that President Clinton dismissed all 93 U.S. attorneys. President Bush can fire any U.S. attorney he wants, and you're just simply making a political stink about it.

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, I think Karl Rove doesn't get it. Here's the problem. Of course, every president has the right to hire and fire U.S. attorneys at will. Every president, when they come in in a new term, like President Clinton did, basically cleans house and puts in new U.S. attorneys. Ronald Reagan did within his first year, George Bush, the first, did within his first year, and this president, Karl Rove's employer, George Bush, our present President George Bush did it. All the U.S. attorneys were replaced. What's different here is not simply that the president wanting this choice, not that choice, but, in these instances, the evidence is becoming more and more overwhelming that certain U.S. attorneys, and only certain ones, not all of them, but certain U.S. attorneys were fired because either they wouldn't prosecute a case that was politically advantageous to the White House or they were prosecuting a case that was disadvantageous to the White House. Every legal commentator, left, right, center, says you can't do that, that's the one thing you can't do.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, let's be specific about this because I want to show you what the attorney general said in January testifying before your committee. Let's watch Alberto Gonzales.

(Videotape, January 18, 2007)

MR. ALBERTO GONZALES: I would never, ever make a change in a United States attorney position for political reasons or if it would, in any way, jeopardize an ongoing serious investigation. I just would not do it.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Do you have any evidence that a U.S. attorney was removed and that removal jeopardized an ongoing investigation?

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