MTP Transcript for Jan. 28, 2007

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, we have some good ideas out there. It’s a difficult thing to do because you cannot legislate and say, “We will not fund this battalion, but we’ll fund that battalion.” And even if you do, the president could then move the other battalion in. But, for instance, Chris Dodd and Ted Kennedy have a good idea, which is we will—any new troops above have to be voted on by Congress. Hillary Clinton has a good idea. No new troops unless certain benchmarks are made. It’s a difficult thing to do because you want to protect the troops that are there and not allow an escalation. But in the upcoming funding resolution in the next month will be our second step. We think this first step, this resolution, nonbinding, will send a real message because close to a majority or even a majority of Republicans will vote for it. But we will not stop there.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Vitter, Chuck Hagel, who serves on the committee with you...

SEN. VITTER: Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: ...he’s a Republican senator from Nebraska...

SEN. VITTER: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: ...offered this warning to his fellow senators and challenges—well, let’s watch.

(Videotape, Foreign Relations Committee, Wednesday)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R-NE): There is no strategy. This, this is a ping-pong game with American lives. ... They’re real lives. And we better be damned sure we know what we’re doing, all of us, before we put 22,000 more Americans into that grinder. We better be as sure as you can be. And I want every one of you, every one of us, 100 senators, to look in that camera and you tell your people back home what you think. Don’t hide any more. None of us.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Vitter, 68 soldiers from Louisiana have died in Iraq, 484...

SEN. VITTER: (Unintelligible)...actually, but significant.

MR. RUSSERT: ...484 have been wounded or injured. What would you say to the people of Louisiana today why more soldiers should be sent?

SEN. VITTER: I would say I’ve looked at it very, very carefully. I didn’t reach this conclusion easily at all. But I do think it’s the best alternative, particularly if we add on to the plan certain provisions that I’ve talked personally about with the president and Secretary of State Rice and others. I agree with Chuck that we need a very full debate. Part of that full debate we’re not getting, in my opinion, is a clear discussion of the alternatives. The resolution that my colleague Chuck Hagel was talking about is not a plan. It is not an alternative. It is a vote against the president’s plan, which is his right, but it is not an alternative plan. And I think, to have a responsible debate, we need to compare plans side by side because there is no easy answer.

MR. RUSSERT: Do you have an alternative plan?

SEN. VITTER: Well, I’m supporting the president’s plan, and I’m strongly encouraging some add-ons, specifically, I think we should be stronger and clearer about benchmarks. And John McCain’s working on a resolution about that that I expect to support. Secondly, I think we should embrace and support a regional diplomatic conference which would include Iran and Syria. Those aren’t—that’s not bilateral talks with them directly with us, but a regional diplomatic conference. And third...

MR. RUSSERT: Well, the Iraq Study Group, you have the book in front of you, called for reaching out, and the president rejected it.

SEN. VITTER: Well, they called for, among other things, those bilateral talks. I agree with the administration that that isn’t a good idea. But the regional diplomatic conference and talks I’m talking about is not that. They also talk about that activity, and the administration is very open to that activity. And I’ve been pushing them and prodding them to move more aggressively in that direction. And then third, I certainly agree with Chuck Hagel about one thing. We need to go over and over and over the issue of is this new troop level enough to make a difference. Because I think, clearly, we’ve been wrong in the past about the adequacy of troop levels.

MR. RUSSERT: You may recommend more?

SEN. VITTER: I’m, I’m open to that. I’m for getting the job done, turning the corner in a short period of time. I’m not for throwing a, a few more troops at it if that can’t turn the corner. I trust David Petraeus, who says we can turn the corner. I’m putting my trust in that. But I think we have to constantly re-examine that issue.

MR. RUSSERT: If this surge doesn’t work by the end of the summer, early fall, would you then consider withdrawal?

SEN. VITTER: Yes. I think this is clearly, as a practical matter, and in my mind, in my heart, this is clearly the final shot. And I’ve said that very clearly to the president and others.

MR. RUSSERT: Ken Pollack, let me show you the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. If the resolution against more troops passes the Congress, should the president proceed? Yes, 30; no, 65 percent. Two out of three Americans say if Congress says to the president, ‘Don’t send more troops,’ he shouldn’t do it. Any chance of that happening?

MR. KEN POLLACK: Well, I think that the administration has made up its mind. It seems like the administration has decided that they’ve got a plan, they believe the plan can work. They also believe that the additional troops can make a difference, and it seems like they’re, at the very least, going to give that plan a shot, regardless of what the American people or the Congress may, may want.

MR. RUSSERT: Can you continue to wage a war without the support of the American people?

MR. POLLACK: It’s extremely difficult, but certainly the Constitution gives the president a whole variety of powers that’re going to make it possible for him to do so, at least in the short term. The bigger question is over the longer term.

MR. RUSSERT: Michael Gerson, you wrote in Newsweek this, and I’ll share it with our viewers, “[Tuesday] General David Petraeus testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee. When asked if he could get his job done in Iraq without additional troops, he replied, ‘No, sir.’ When asked if a congressional resolution of disapproval of the ‘surge’ could encourage the enemy, he said, ‘That’s correct, sir.’

“Under these circumstances, it is hard to imagine what impulse of arrogance could cause Republican senators like Warner and Collins to actively undermine the operational judgment of a skilled commander in the field, at the beginning of a decisive military campaign. The next week or so will test the proposition: does the military chain of command end in the Oval Office or on the Senate floor?”

MR. MICHAEL GERSON: Mm-hmm.

MR. RUSSERT: You’re taking on your fellow Republicans?

MR. GERSON: Yeah, I think this is clearly a case—it would be unprecedented for—to—for the Senate to undermine the operational judgments of a new commander in a very, at the beginning of a very decisive military campaign, where there are some early signs of hope, in, in this case. And, you know, the Senate is not going to conclude, I don’t believe, in March, when they consider the supplemental, that this is over, that it will pass the point of no return. The president’s made a case that we have to give this a chance.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Schumer, the president has said give this a chance.

Why not give him a chance?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, we’ve given him so many chances. We’ve had nine plans on Iraqization. We’ve had so many different alternatives, and no change in strategy. Here’s the reasons, Tim, very simple. We’re still policing a civil war. No one bargained policing a civil war between the Sunnis and the Shiites, that’s a large basis of the president’s plan. The Sunnis and Shiites are going to be fighting with each other where our—whether our troops stay in three months or three years. And it’s our prerogative as a Senate, our obligation as a Senate, hearing the message of the electorate, to try and get the president to change. This plan is going to be—we believe it’s going to be a flop. Lots of people gave the president the benefit of the doubt in 2003, but there have—but there have been mess up after mess up after mess up. People are not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt again.

MR. RUSSERT: If you believe the plan is such, such a flop, then why did you vote to confirm General Petraeus, who is one of the architects of the plan?

SEN. SCHUMER: Because General Petraeus—the buck stops with the president, and our relationship is with the president, not in the line of command. And we will ratchet up the pressure on the president to change the course, to come up with a strategy different than the one they’ve had, which just about everyone, Tim—large numbers of generals, the American people, a majority of the Senate...

MR. RUSSERT: But General Petraeus is for the...

SEN. SCHUMER: ...even General Maliki.

MR. RUSSERT: General Petraeus is for the plan, why vote to confirm him?

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