MTP Transcript for Jan. 21, 2007

SEN. McCAIN: I think we’re send—I think we’ve convinced Prime Minister Maliki then, as the situation continues to deteriorate, that we need to do that. I am very, very—one of my very serious concerns, and I think many others’ concerns is whether Prime Minister Maliki will be steadfast in this effort. There’s been actions that he’s taken in the past which are very disturbing, such as removing a blockade around Sadr City after we were trying to rescue an American soldier who had been kidnapped. His statements and a couple of his actions in recent days have given me a little more confidence, but there’s no doubt that this is a slender reed that we are leaning on here in the form of Maliki and his government.

MR. RUSSERT: Do you agree with Secretary of State Rice that Mr. Maliki’s government is on borrowed time?

SEN. McCAIN: I think the whole situation in Iraq is on borrowed time, because of the continued deterioration of the security situation, particularly in Baghdad and Anbar province. You cannot have this kind of situation exist in a capital of any nation. But also, by the way, we need—as far as Maliki is concerned—we need unity of command in Baghdad. Americans have to be in charge. The operational decisions of sending troops to Baghdad by the Maliki government is fine, but General Petraeus has to be in charge. Unity of command equates to unity of effort.

MR. RUSSERT: Do you have confidence that Mr. Maliki is someone who would truly be an ally on the war on terror? He has refused to describe Hezbollah as a terrorist organization and has refused to denounce Hezbollah for their activities in Lebanon.

SEN. McCAIN: I, I, as I said, I am concerned about the steadfastness and the commitment of the Maliki government. I am encouraged by statements recently. Sometimes in some countries politicians make statements for local consumption, as, as we all know. Also I think it’s important to note if any government thought that their protectors or their supporters, in this case American military, were leaving, they have to remain in the neighborhood, and they would want to make accommodation so that they could survive in that neighborhood. I’m hoping with this new strategy that it will stiffen Maliki’s spine and that of his government so that we can really prevail here and bring about his goal and ours, and that’s a peaceful situation where we can clear and hold, not just clear and leave, as we did in the past, thereby allowing the economic and political process to move forward and thereby having a nation that can at least have some prospects for a brighter future.

MR. RUSSERT: I want to bring you to an interview January 13^th in The Washington Post when you were talking about your frustrations, and you chose some interesting words. You said “One of the most frustrating things that’s ever happened in my political life,” [McCain] said, “is watching this train wreck.” Why is Iraq a train wreck?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, it’s been a train wreck because, from the beginning, when the looting was allowed and then the army was dissolved and the so-called de-Baathif—there was a series of events which led to a steadily deteriorating situation. Look, it’s been well chronicled in books like “Fiasco” by Tom Ricks and “Cobra II” by Michael Gordon and General Trainor. It’s, it’s well chronicled, the descent that we’ve been on, and so many people knew that this was a failed strategy. And that’s why I think that this is our chance now, our last chance, to, to have a new strategy which will give us a chance to prevail. But it was—it was a saddening thing to watch, and, of course, the tragedy is that the loss of young Americans.

MR. RUSSERT: As you well know, Democrats are now referring to the increase in American troops, the so-called surge, as the McCain doctrine. Do you accept that?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, there’s a McCain principle, and that is that when you raise your hand and you vote to send young Americans into harm’s way that you will commit yourself and your efforts to completing that mission successfully. I don’t know how lightly others may take that vote, but that’s the principle that I’ve operated under, and—but not everybody gets a doctrine named after them.

MR. RUSSERT: As you well know, senator, Iraq is a very divisive issue across the country, front and center in the already-begun 2008 presidential campaign. The liberal Democratic group MoveOn.org has on the airwaves with an ad directed at you. Let’s watch it and come back and talk about it.

(Videotape of MoveOn.org advertisement)

Announcer: John McCain has done more than just embrace George Bush’s failed policy in Iraq. It’s actually his idea to escalate the war there. It’s John McCain’s idea to send tens of thousands more soldiers to Iraq and to keep them there with no timeline for bringing them home. The McCain plan to escalate, going from bad to worse.

(End of videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: What do you think?

SEN. McCAIN: I like the shot with the sunglasses. Look, this is—this is part of the American political dialogue today. These are the 527s, which many of us have tried to get rid of, not for this particular reason but because of the unlimited funding that goes into it. But this is a—I’ll be glad to have this debate and this discussion here in—on this program and, and across America. I’m trying to, to convince my fellow citizens in Arizona that this strategy can succeed and it can prevent chaos in the region. I really believe that those who oppose this policy have some obligation to propose an alternative strategy besides withdrawal in four to six months. That’s not a strategy; that’s a retreat.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Hillary Clinton, who’s running for president as of yesterday, said last week that we should not cut off funding for American troops, but cut off funding for the security for Iraqi government officials and cut off funding for the Iraqi army because they simply have not measured up. Would you support her in that effort?

SEN. McCAIN: I don’t see any place in the Constitution where that kind of authority is granted to the Congress. The Congress can cut off funding. And if my colleagues believe that they’re going to send young Americans to die in an unwinnable situation, it seems to me that their conscience would dictate that they cut off the funding for the entire effort. And the—this resolution is basically a vote of no confidence in the men and women we are sending over there. We’re saying, “We’re sending you—we’re not going to stop you from going there, but we don’t believe you can succeed and we’re not willing to support that.” I don’t think the troops would find that an expression of support. And to accuse the president of the United States of, quote, “rushing troops over there” is beneath, frankly, the behavior level that I think is appropriate for members of Congress.

So I hope we can engage—we will be engaging in this debate and discussion. I hope we can make our case. I believe that it’s very necessary, and I understand the frustration that Americans feel. Only 15 percent of Americans supported the first Gulf War at the beginning. But if we can show them a path to success, I think you will see increasing support. But I think it’s going to be long and hard and difficult, and I’m very disturbed when administration officials start talking about quick withdrawals. That’s not going to work.

MR. RUSSERT: But, senator, this is fourth year of the war. And now the number of Americans who support it in the 30s. Isn’t this—or could this not be perceived not as a vote of no confidence in the American troops, but a vote by Congress, a vote of no confidence in the commander in chief?

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