MTP Transcript for Jan. 21, 2007

MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: the war in Iraq. Should Congress support President Bush’s plan to send more American troops to Iraq? Yes, says the leading advocate for a troop increase.

(Videotape)

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ): These moves will give the Iraqis and America the best chance of success.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Republican Senator John McCain of Arizona.

No says the leading opponent of a troop surge.

(Videotape)

SEN. TED KENNEDY (D-MA): Escalation would be a policy of desperation built on denial and fantasy.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts.

McCain and Kennedy, two key senators with very different views on the war, only on MEET THE PRESS.

But first, the decision by the president to send more American troops to Iraq, it sent off a heated debate in the U.S. Senate. Twenty more American troops killed yesterday, one of the bloodiest days of the war. With us now, Senator John McCain.

Senator, welcome. I want to raise first The Economist magazine, this is The Economist’s intelligence unit. They say this: “Unless their mission is very well-defined, 20,000 troops are probably too few to make a significant difference - and may be too few under any circumstances. ... Adding around 20,000 to the 132,000 currently there will increase U.S. capabilities, but not enough to stabilize the country.” You agree with that?

SEN. McCAIN: I am concerned about it, whether it is sufficient numbers or not. I would have like to have seen more. I looked General Petraeus in the eye and said, “Is that sufficient for you to do the job?” He assured me that he thought it was and that he had been told that if he needed more he would receive them. I have great confidence in General Petraeus. I think he’s one of the finest generals that our military’s ever produced, and he has a proven record on that. He wrote the new Army counterinsurgency manual. But do I believe that if it had been up to me would there have been more? Yes, but one of the keys to this is get them over there quickly rather than feed them in piecemeal as some in the Pentagon would like to do today.

MR. RUSSERT: You are a veteran of Vietnam, and you understand when public opinion slips away from support of a war. Here’s the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll out this morning. And we asked, if Congress passes a resolution against the president’s position on more troops, should President Bush proceed? Yes, 30; no, 65 percent. Two out of three Americans, senator. And look at this breakdown by party. Democrats, 85 percent say no. Independents, voters you know well, 71 percent say no, do not proceed. And now 33 percent, one third of Republicans, say listen to Congress more than the president. Why should the American people, after they voted the midterm elections and have a Congress that says no to the president, why shouldn’t they be listened to?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, I understand their frustration and sometimes anger over the lack of success and lack of progress, particularly coupled with optimistic statements made time after time when things were not going well and deteriorating. At the time of the first Gulf War, only 15 percent of the American people thought we ought to go to Kuwait and get rid of Saddam Hussein there. If it was as clear-cut as someone described, Tim, Joe Lieberman would not have been re-elected in the state of Connecticut.

Americans are frustrated, they are angry, and they are fed up. And what we need to do is show them a path to success. Because I think—and also I think we need to make them more aware of the consequences of failure, which would be chaos in the region. And sooner or later, I think Americans might have to return. So I understand their frustration, I believe that President Bush now has the right strategy. I’ve been deeply disappointed in the strategy in the past, as is well known, and I think this is our last chance. Will it succeed? I can’t guarantee that. I think we have a good chance of it, but I guarantee the catastrophic results of failure.

MR. RUSSERT: One of the things the American people do remember, September 11^th, 2001, the Taliban had harbored al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, and then they read this from the Baltimore Sun: “A U.S. Army infantry battalion fighting in a critical area of eastern Afghanistan is due to be withdrawn within weeks in order to deploy to Iraq. According to Army Brigadier General Anthony Tata and other senior U.S. commanders [there], that will happen just as the Taliban is expected to unleash a major campaign to cut the vital road between Kabul and Kandahar.” Should we be moving troops from Afghanistan, at this delicate stage in that war, to Iraq?

SEN. McCAIN: I’m not aware of that, and on its face I would be very concerned. A recent trip that we made to Afghanistan, it’s clear to one and all that the Taliban has been reconstituted, particularly in safe area in Pakistan just across the Afghan border, and there will be increased attacks on U.S. and coalition forces. So, as I say, I’ve—had not seen the report, but I would be concerned about it.

We have, we have a military of 1.4 million. It seems to me that we could come up with 20,000 troops without the great difficulty that apparently the Pentagon feels it is.

MR. RUSSERT: So you would prefer not to take troops out of Afghanistan?

SEN. McCAIN: I would prefer not to take troops out of Afghanistan. I think that the new policy of expanding the Marine Corps and the Army is vital, because we are going to have difficulties throughout the world, and we’re going to have increasing difficulties in Afghanistan, which is—the situation is exacerbated by the deteriorating relations between President Karzai of Afghanistan and President Musharraf of Pakistan. It’s a very serious situation there. But the good news is we have allies who are in there with us who are committed and are also making similar sacrifices.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator, we heard President Bush, throughout the last four years of the war, saying “Whatever the commanders tell me about troop levels, that’s what I’ll do.” This is what General George Casey, the U.S. commander in Iraq said on January 2: “The longer we in the U.S. forces continue to bear the main burden of Iraq’s security, it lengthens the time that the government of Iraq has to make the hard decisions about reconciliation and dealing with the militias. And the other thing is that they can continue to blame us for all of Iraq’s problems, which are at base their problems.” President Bush disagreed with General Casey, so he’s removed. Why didn’t the president listen to his generals when they advised no more troops?

SEN. McCAIN: Because it was clearly a failed policy. From the beginning, many of us knew that it was a failed strategy. It was based on the mistaken belief that the Iraqi army and police would be able to take over the responsibilities far more quickly than they were able to. And after the bombing of the Shia mosque, the, the crisis accelerated, and we saw and are seeing a steady deterioration of the situation. And if we continue it as we are, within months we would see a total breakdown in Iraq. We cannot afford it, in my view, as I said.

Baghdad is a city of six million people—two million Sunnis, four million Shia. We would see a bloodletting in Baghdad of—that would make Srebrenica look like a Sunday school picnic. We can’t expect Americans to sit outside Baghdad or outside the borders and watch such a thing go on. It was a failed policy; it was pursued too long. We now have a new strategy headed by one of the finest military people we have, and I believe we can succeed. But I believe that there’s no doubt, in retrospect and at the time, that the policy that was pursued wasn’t going to work.

MR. RUSSERT: Failed policy. General Casey now is returning back to the United States. He’s been nominated to be the chief of staff of the Army. Will you support and vote for his confirmation?

SEN. McCAIN: I have very serious concerns about General Casey’s nomination. I’m concerned about failed leadership, the message that sends to the rest of the military. I have hard questions to ask him, and I—I’m very skeptical about it.

MR. RUSSERT: As of today, you’re leaning no.

SEN. McCAIN: Yes. Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me ask about Prime Minister Maliki. Front page of The Washington Post today said that when Prime Minister Maliki of Iraq met with President Bush in Jordan on November 30^th of last year, he had a power point presentation in which he said to the president “no more American troops.” If the Iraqis didn’t want more troops, why are we sending them?

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