MTP Transcript for Jan. 7, 2007

SEN. GRAHAM:  It gave people the idea that Saddam Hussein will never come

back, and I can’t tell you how many people lived in fear of this man

re-emerging as a political leader in Iraq.  That fear is lost.  The way the

hanging occurred was a setback, but whatever taunt he received on the day of his death pales in comparison to the way he treated his own people.  This will pass.  We have a chance to start over.  Gates has replaced Rumsfeld; it was long overdue.  Petraeus is replacing Casey, long overdue.  We’ve got a new team on the ground.  We’re going to come up with a new strategy.  The strategy is going to be designed to win.  The current strategy is not working.  Withdrawal as a strategy, I think, is a disaster for this country.  It sends the wrong signal to the insurgents.  It, it, it hurts the moderate effort, and no one talks about what happens when we leave from the idea of withdrawing.  So we’re going to...

MR. RUSSERT:  If a year from now the situation on the ground is similar to what it is today in terms of violence, in sectarian violence, what will you—what do you say then?

SEN. GRAHAM:  What I say is, a year from now or five years from now, what would be the consequences to an Iraq in open civil war with sectarian killing where Iran tries to take over the southern part of Iraq, the north—northern, northern part the Kurds break away and Turkey gets involved, what would we do if we left a year from now and there’s open civil war and Iran tries to occupy, through a puppet government, the south of Iraq.  What will we do if Turkey threatens to go to war with the Kurds?  We got to think about these things now, and we need to adjust now.  We’ve made mighty mistakes.  We’ve never had enough troops in the past.  Let’s don’t repeat the mistakes of the past, I agree with Senator Biden.  The biggest mistake we’ve made is we’ve never put enough troops on the ground to secure this country.  We’ve never had a strategy for economic political power to be successful because security was never there to make it successful.  The biggest mistake we could make is to repeat the mistakes of the past and not have enough people on the ground to make a difference.  The Iraqi people have to step up.  Listen to the president Wednesday.  He is not blind to the fact that eventually the Iraqi people have to solve their political problems.  But until we put the right combat power in place with the Iraqis, we will never have a political solution.  And I ask my friend Joe Biden, the letter from Pelosi and Reid of leaving in four to six months, do you agree with that?

SEN. BIDEN:  I do not.  This is a red herring.  Here’s the deal:  20,000 30,000, 40,000 troops is not enough.  Let’s get real here.  And I’d like to ask my friend, tell—name me the moderate Iraqis.  Name me the moderate Iraqis who are out there...

SEN. GRAHAM:  Can...

SEN. BIDEN:  ...prepared to make the kind of compromises democracy requires.  We came back after the election when we were over there in—when, when, when, when they voted, the Iraqis.  And the president said, “Great democratic move.” And I sat in the White House, and I said, “Mr.  President, it was a sectarian election.  There was no democratic movement there.” You’ve got to compromise.  We keep looking for Thomas Jefferson hiding behind Iraq somewhere.

SEN. GRAHAM:  You’re right there.

MR. RUSSERT:  How much time do we have, realistically?

SEN. BIDEN:  Well, I think, realistically, we have the remainder of this year.  And at the end of that time, I think this is, this is ball game.  And my friend is right.  That’s why smart guys are doing what Senator—what Secretary Baker and a lot of other people are saying.  We’ve got to think about the totality of the region.  That’s why you should be talking to these other countries.  That’s why you should be putting a plan B in place.  That’s why you should be forcing a political solution.  And remember, this administration said just as little as several months ago, a month ago, “We can’t tell the Iraqis what to do.” Give me a break.  Give me a break.

SEN. GRAHAM:  If I, if I may.

MR. RUSSERT:  Go ahead, real fast.

SEN. GRAHAM:  If I may, the Iraqi judge who allowed his face to be on worldwide television presiding over the trial of Saddam Hussein, to me, represents the best of the country.  There are plenty of Kurds...

SEN. BIDEN:  I agree.  He has no power.

SEN. GRAHAM:  ...Sunnis and Shias who are dying for their freedom.  To be a policeman or a politician or a judge in Iraq, you risk everything.  There’re plenty of people there that want their freedom, and power of the moderates to stand up against extremists win this war.

SEN. BIDEN:  Who are the moderate leaders?

SEN. GRAHAM:  Win this war.

MR. RUSSERT:  The debate on Iraq will continue.

Senator Biden, presidential politics.  You said last year that you would make a decision January of ‘07.

SEN. BIDEN:  Yes.

MR. RUSSERT:  Are you running for president?

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