MTP Transcript for Dec. 31

MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: This is the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol, where the remains of the 38^th president of the United States lie in state. What is Gerald Ford’s legacy? What is the story behind the story of his pardon of Richard Nixon? With us, two reporters who covered the Ford presidency, Tom Brokaw of NBC News and Bob Woodward of The Washington Post.

Then, the biggest stories of 2006 and the stories to watch for in 2007 and 2008. Insights and analysis from NBC News presidential historian Michael Beschloss, E.J. Dionne of The Washington Post, Kate O’Beirne of the National Review, Eugene Robinson of The Washington Post and William Safire of The New York Times.

But first, this was the scene just before 6:10 a.m. Saturday morning Baghdad time as Saddam Hussein was led to his death, the noose being tightened around his neck. TV stations affiliated with the prime minister, his political party of Iraq, showed this picture of what they say is the former dictator’s body, wrapped in a white shroud following the execution. And early this morning, these pictures from the area of Saddam’s hometown of Tikrit. There is Saddam’s picture on a chair, surrounded by mourners in front of his casket, which arrived in the back of a pickup truck.

Let’s go to Baghdad. We are joined by NBC’s Richard Engel. Richard, are we sure that Saddam’s body is in that casket and truly has been buried?

MR. RICHARD ENGEL: Good morning, Tim. A tribal sheik in that area who received Saddam’s body also spoke to Iraqi television. He is seen opening the casket, looking inside and then signing a document saying that it was, in fact, Saddam Hussein, and that it was prepared in a proper way for burial.

Tim:

MR. RUSSERT: Richard, there are new details, new grainy Internet footage about the actual execution. A lot of hostile and political comments made right before Saddam’s death. Tell us about that.

MR. ENGEL: In particular, they were sectarian comments and they are disturbing many people here in Iraq who say that it just exposes this Shiite government’s sectarian coloring that it took to as this execution was taking place. Saddam was led into the execution chamber, brought up to the gallows. He appeared very calm, according to witnesses and the, and the video that has been released and posted on the Internet. However, the guards and the witnesses started to taunt him. They were shouting jeers and Shiite Islamic slogans. They were saying the name of Moqtada al-Sadr, a leader of the militia groups here in this country. Saddam tried to remain calm and dignified. His hair had been just died black, his beard trimmed, shoes polished. He didn’t respond. At one stage, he only said, “Go to hell,” as they were saying for him to go to hell. But in the end, he just returned to, to prayers and the final words that were coming out of his mouth was the Islamic call, a profession of faith, as the hangman pulled the lever, dropping the trapdoor.

MR. RUSSERT: Richard, finally, there have been 75 deaths in the Baghdad area since the execution of Saddam Hussein. What impact do you believe his execution will have short-term, long-term, on the security situation in Iraq?

MR. ENGEL: Frankly, Tim, I don’t think it will have a tremendous impact. The Baath Party supporters, the people who are behind Saddam Hussein, are not the overwhelming majority of people in this country carrying out attacks against American soldiers or against Iraqis themselves. Now, it is mostly still Sunnis, but more Sunnis with an Islamic fundamentalist bent, people who are more motivated by al-Qaeda than to bring back Saddam Hussein. What could happen is the, is the more sectarian concerns, the fact that this video and the execution itself were such—were tinged by such sectarian overtones, that could fuel the, the much more greater problem in this country, which is the civil war.

MR. RUSSERT: Richard Engel, we thank you, as always, for that report. But try to have a happy new year in that difficult situation and location.

MR. ENGEL: Thank you very much.

MR. RUSSERT: And be safe.

And here in Washington, this is a live picture of the casket of former President Gerald R. Ford lying in state in the rotunda of the U.S. Capitol as Americans begin to flow through the Capitol, paying their respects to the 38^th president of the United States. And here to discuss that president, two reporters who covered his term in office, Tom Brokaw of NBC News, Bob Woodward of The Washington Post.

Welcome, both. Good morning.

MR. TOM BROKAW: Good morning.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me go back, Bob Woodward, to 1973. This is May. And you talk about the relationship between Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.

MR. BOB WOODWARD: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: Nixon’s president, Gerald Ford, a congressman from Michigan, and you uncovered an audiotape. This is the morning after the president of the United States has just fired many of his staff, acknowledging wrongdoing in Watergate, but without accepting full responsibility. And this is the conversation. Let’s listen.

(Audiotape, May 1, 1973):

PRES. RICHARD NIXON: Just wanted to express my appreciation for your note, tell you to keep the faith and tell the guys goddamn it to get off their asses and start fighting back.

REP. GERALD FORD: Well, we’re going to, Mr. President, and you did a hell of a job last night, and, uh, isn’t any other way I can express it this morning, but uh, you’ve got a hell of a lot of friends up here, both Republican and Democrat, and don’t worry about anybody being sunshine soldiers or summer patriots.

PRES. NIXON: Never, Jerry Ford.

REP. FORD: Well, any time you want me to do anything, under any circumstances, you give me a call.

PRES. NIXON: You stand firm, old boy.

REP. FORD: Don’t worry.

PRES. NIXON: All right. Thank you.

(End audiotape)

MR. RUSSERT: May of ‘73, a very loyal soldier, Gerald Ford.

MR. WOODWARD: Yes, totally, and pledging fealty to Nixon. And one of the things you find here in looking at the record, and I was able to, over the last two years, talk to Ford for about eight hours and really dig into this relationship, it was much more intimate. They, they were friends, they, they shared all kinds of, of social times together with their wives. This was not merely a political alliance, it was a real friendship.

MR. RUSSERT: Seven months after that, Tom Brokaw, Gerald Ford did not know and Richard Nixon did not know, but Gerald Ford became vice president of the United States when Spiro Agnew had to resign that office for financial improprieties. Here’s Gerald Ford taking the oath of office December 6^th, 1973, Richard Nixon behind him. And a few weeks after that, Mr. Ford—Vice President Ford appeared on MEET THE PRESS and was asked specifically about Richard Nixon and his role in Watergate. Let’s watch.

(Videotape, January 6, 1974):

VICE PRES. FORD: I’m sure he turned to those running the re-election campaign and said, “I have these major matters that involve the national security and the well-being of the American people, and you run the campaign.” Unfortunately, those that ran, some of them apparently ran it badly. But I’m convinced that the president was preoccupied with these very important matters and therefore, I’m convinced he had nothing whatsoever to do with Watergate.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: That was January of ‘74, the vice president saying the president had nothing to do with Watergate. The president had made a decision that morning, Tom, not to turn over 500 hours of tapes to the Sam Ervin investigative committee of the U.S. Senate. Tom Brokaw was on that program with Gerald Ford and asked this question. Let’s watch.

(Videotape, January 5, 1974):

MR. BROKAW: The question, Mr. Vice President, was about the possibility of a compromise. And President Nixon apparently closed the door on that possibility. Do you think that that was wise?

VICE PRES. FORD: At this point, I think with the broad-sweeping demand by the committee, the president was right in saying that he would not go along with their demand. Now, if they are willing to make some refinements in the demand, cutting it down to things that are more relevant to the committee’s responsibility, then I think there may be, and I underline may be, an area of compromise.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: The vice president opening the door of compromise, Tom. That led to this headline in The Washington Post the next day, the very next day:

“Ford Suggests Nixon-Ervin Compromise” on the tapes, which led to this response from the White, White House: “White House Disowns Ford, Ford’s View on Tapes,” which led to this, led to this analysis piece in The Washington Post: “On Jan. 7 ... the new Vice President said on NBC’s ‘Meet the Press’ that a compromise might be possible between the White House and the Senate Watergate committee over release of about 500 presidential tapes.

“The White House immediately disowned the observation by saying Ford was speaking for himself only, and though the disclaimed was softened later, the implication was clear: Ford had climbed out on a limb, and was being left there.” When you heard Jerry Ford say, “You know what, maybe we could compromise on this,” did you realize that he was opening the door between himself and Richard Nixon?

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