De Niro, Damon: Spies, patriotism and politics

Students at George Mason University ask Robert De Niro, Matt Damon and Milton Bearden questions at the "Hardball" college tour:

QUESTION:  What advice do you have for students who would like to work for the CIA, if we want to be recruited?

DE NIRO:  Well, you should ask Milt.

BEARDEN:  I think it would be a terrific career for you, and I think it’s a place where young women have every chance to succeed, as much as a young man does.

I think you have to understand that there were probably four distinct CIAs in the last 60 years.  We’re showing you one here.  A couple more.  I spent 30 years through pieces of them.

There will always be a need for very bright young people like yourself to go do things for their country.

QUESTION FROM STUDENT:  Is it difficult going from dramatic movies to comedic and directing?  And which one do you prefer?

DE NIRO:  I don’t mind the comedies.  They’re fun to do.  I enjoy them.  I can kind of do crazy things and maybe they’ll work, maybe they won't, but at least I enjoy them.

QUESTION FROM STUDENT:  While preparing to shoot some very intense scenes in the movie, I was curious to know if the torture scene, in particular, made you think about the methods being used currently in Guantanamo Bay, where the U.S. has been holding detainees since 9/11, and if you feel the ends justify the means in getting what is supposedly best for the safety of the U.S. citizens and the rest of the people around the world?

MATTHEWS:  Waterboarding, is that what it was, Matt?  You were watching that movie?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Yes, basically.

MATTHEWS:  They had a guy with a hood over him.  They kept pouring water on him—I’d never seen this before—making it look like—feel like he’s drowning.  It was a horrible scene.

DE NIRO:  Yes.  Powerful, powerful.

MATTHEWS:  Is that what we do?

BEARDEN:  We all know we’re doing it now.  I think it’s an issue.  I think—I think there’s sort of metaphorical stuff that you need to work with in a movie, but...

MATTHEWS:  How often does that fail and just kills the guy?

BEARDEN:  I think that it kills and destroys the people who are doing it about as it does the people that it’s being done to.  I think that America needs to say, “How much do I want to give up of what this country has been—become over the next—last 230 years, peace at any price or make me safe.”

MATTHEWS:  Yes.

BEARDEN:  How much do I want to give up?  And that’s the question that you’re going to have to fathom.

MATTHEWS:  Robert De Niro, when you directed that scene, that horrible scene in that movie, maybe the toughest scene to watch, where you see a bunch of guys dressed up like that, you know, dressed up, well-educated, elitist, Ivy Leaguers.  And they’re just watching this Russian guy, who looks to me authentically trying to defect, treating him like dirt, like an animal, torturing him, intellectually and physically.  What was that about?

DE NIRO:  Well, I thought that this would get the point across.  It was very powerful and we had done some research.  Part of it was from Abu Ghraib, obviously.  I’d seen those images.  And the other part was just what we thought would make the point at that point in that scene.  That was it.

MATTHEWS:  What did you feel, doing that?

DAMON:  Watching it or...

MATTHEWS:  Doing it.  You’re an actor.  You’re playing this guy who’s just taking it.  He’s watching another guy, another professional, being tortured like that.  He was obviously trying to tell the truth. 

And yet, you didn’t want the truth.

DAMON:  From the perspective of the character, though,  everything that I do makes sense to me, which is why I think it was a well written movie.  I understand why I’m doing that in that situation.  I believe what’s at stake, if I don’t understand exactly what this person’s intentions are, is worth the price of doing that, to my character.  Not this—I mean, to my character.

MATTHEWS:  Ends justifies the means?

DAMON:  No.  To him in that situation, his behavior is justified. 

Everything the character does in the movie is justified, to him.

MATTHEWS:  We’ll come back and talk about that.  That is fascinating.

Milton Bearden, thank you very much.  We fight with you, and you won.  Thank you, anyway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP OF "GOOD SHEPHERD")

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  And what about you, Mr. Wilson?  What do you do?

DAMON:  Are you in school?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  You don’t say very much, do you?

DAMON:  When there’s something worth saying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Oh, I think (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP OF "GOOD SHEPHERD")

MATTHEWS:  Let’s take another question.

QUESTION FROM STUDENT:  My question can be answered by either Mr. De Niro or Mr. Damon.  What was the exact purpose for Joe Pesci’s part in the movie? Can you elaborate more on his part?

DE NIRO:  Well, that scene I’ve always loved, and could you not have that scene?  Yes.  I wanted that scene because I loved the scene and to get Joe in it was—I couldn’t imagine anybody else doing it, and the scene itself and what goes on between Matt and Joe’s—their respective characters, where he says “and what do you people have” after he says I have this, the Italians have this, the Jews have this, blah, blah, blah, he says, “and so what do you have?”  And then he says, “the United States of America.  The rest of you are just visiting.” 

I mean, that’s the essence of the movie in a certain way.

MATTHEWS:  Did you not like the N-word in there?  Is that what you were mad about or what?

STUDENT:  No.  I just was a little confused.

MATTHEWS:  No, I’m serious, because that was a tough scene.  That guy was not exactly politically correct, that guy Joe Pesci played.  He was playing “The Godfather” actually, right?  He was playing “The Godfather.”

I don’t want to put thoughts in your mind.  I was just trying to stir things up with you, that’s all.  You know, what’s it like acting with this guy, or his direction?

DAMON:  What’s it like?  That was the main reason for me to do it was the chance to work that closely with him on a movie that he was that passionate about.  It’s basically the best safety net in history as an actor is having him watch over your performance.

MATTHEWS:  You’ve done this now twice.  You’re taking on the CIA. 

You took on the political establishment with “Wag the Dog.”  You basically said the political establishment was all a bunch of fraud, charlatans and they start war to cover up for some president messing around with a kid, right?  And now you’re taking on the CIA.  You’re pretty ballsy.

DE NIRO:  No, I mean, I didn’t direct “Wag the Dog.”

MATTHEWS:  No, Levinson did, but you were behind it though, weren’t you?

DE NIRO:  Well, Jane Rosenthal and myself and Barry Levinson kicked it off and started it, yes.

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