MTP Transcript for Nov. 12

MR. RUSSERT: But now, today, in ‘06, do you share Senator McCain’s view that we should send in more American troops and either win the war or, quote/unquote, “win the war” or withdraw?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Let me go back real briefly on Rumsfeld. I said in October of 2003 that I thought the president should bring in a new secretary of defense because our policy in Iraq was collapsing then and somebody had to be held accountable. When I made that statement, it was a time around—I think it was around Abu Ghraib, and I said “This is the wrong time to pull out the secretary of defense.’”

MR. RUSSERT: But should we send more troops in?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: I think we have to be open to that, as, as a way to succeed, to achieve a free and independent Iraq, which would be an extraordinary accomplishment. But it’s got to be tied to a, to a new strategy, and it may be that it should be tied to commitments from the Iraqi government to, to disarm those militias and to bring more Sunnis into a national unity government. But, but I wouldn’t send more troops just for the sake of sending more troops. But I would if it’s tied to a success strategy.

MR. RUSSERT: I think the concern a lot of people have is that what have we created in Iraq? And you’ve been a strong proponent of the war...

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: ...all the way. This was a photograph Wednesday. That’s the Prime Minister Maliki with the Speaker of the Iraqi Parliament Mahmoud al-Mashhadani. And this is what the speaker of the Iraqi Parliament said. He “accused ‘Jews’ of financing acts of violence in Iraq in order to discredit Islamists who control the parliament and government so they can install their ‘agents’ in power... Some people say, ‘We saw you beheading, kidnapping and killing. In the end we even started kidnapping women who are our honor,’ [Speaker Mahmoud] al-Mashhadani said. ‘These acts are not the work of Iraqis. I am sure he who does this is a Jew and the son of a Jew. ... No one deserves to rule Iraq other than Islamists’” Speaker of the parliament.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: Have we created a fundamentalist Islamic regime?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: No. Those are hateful, stupid statements and all of us should reject them, but that, you know, this is a Democracy now and what we’re fighting—see, if we pick up and leave, Iran and the terrorists, the, the extreme Islamist terrorists, will surge in and dominate most of that country. Then we’ll have a real hell in Iraq that will affect the security in the entire Middle East and the United States of America in our war against the Islamist terrorists.

Most Iraqis, from every indication I’ve had, from talking to our troops, still want to live a better, freer life. If we can build a free and independent Iraq, it will be a significant victory in the larger war for the hearts and minds of the Muslim world. We’ve got to try to create an alternative path to the future in the Arab-Islamic world than the one that al-Qaeda offers. And I’m not ready to give up on Iraq, certainly not based on ridiculous statements by one official.

MR. RUSSERT: General Thurman, the ranking commander on the ground for the U.S., said “The problem is we want it more than they do.”

SEN. LIEBERMAN: No, from everything I hear, the majority want it. And here’s the problem. We were making great progress last year, three elections, a unity government formed. We were, we were moving forward against the terrorists who exactly went the opposite, and the Iranians, from what we want. And then al-Qaeda in Iraq—Zarqawi claimed credit for this—blew up the holy Shiia mosque in Samarra, and that began this terrible cycle of sectarian violence. We cannot yield to it.

Look, there—in every war, the second World War, there were moments when we could’ve pulled out, when we could’ve set a deadline, but we didn’t because we believed the consequences of doing so would be much greater and worse than what was happening on the ground. I believe that’s where we...

MR. RUSSERT: But a vast--60 percent of the American people say they don’t support this war.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: I—they, they don’t support what’s happening.

MR. RUSSERT: You, you...

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Two things I’d say, Tim. They don’t support what’s happening in the war now. They don’t, I, I believe, want us to just pick up and leave. But most important of all, and I, I appreciate what John McCain said earlier on this; as elected leaders, we cannot conduct our defense and foreign policy, our national security policy, by public opinion polls. We’ve got to do what we sincerely...

MR. RUSSERT: But can you keep a country at war that doesn’t want to be there?

SEN. LIEBERMAN: You can’t, and that’s why we need to form a bipartisan consensus for victory in Iraq, for success in Iraq, which is still attainable. And, and this is the, this is the great problem, the terrorists cannot defeat us on the battlefield in Iraq, but we can lose the war here at home if we don’t begin to be bipartisan about it and, and regain the confidence and some hope for the American people. I do think that the president bringing in a new secretary of defense is a significant move which will now reopen the discussion with the American people, with our allies, with the American military, and I, and I hope it will lead to some progress in Iraq.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, we shall see and we’ll be covering that. We thank you for joining us with your views.

SEN. LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT: And our viewers should know we extended invitations to the new Democratic leaders in the House and Senate, incoming Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Majority Leader Harry Reid. Both declined our invitation, but we hope they’ll be here on a future Sunday.

Coming next, insights and analysis from Maureen Dowd of The New York Times and David Gregory of NBC News.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT: And we’re back. David Gregory, Maureen Dowd, welcome both. Democrats take control of both houses of Congress. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is—exits. What happened on Tuesday? What message was sent?

MS. MAUREEN DOWD: Well, I think the American people are tired of belligerence, and a kind of moral crusade based on a war that wasn’t waged in a moral way, either in how it was ginned up, or in how it was presented truthfully to the American people.

MR. RUSSERT: David, Karl Rove says this: “Iraq mattered. But it was more frustration than it was an explicit call for withdrawal. If this was a get-out-now call for withdrawal, then Lamont would not have been beaten by Lieberman. Iraq does play a role, but not the critical, central role. ... The profile of corruption in the exit polls was bigger than I’d expected. Abramoff, lobbying, Foley and Haggard [the disgraced evangelical leader] added to the general distaste that people have for all things Washington, and it just reached critical mass.”

MR. DAVID GREGORY: You know, I think that latter point is important. Yes, there was a sense of incompetence among Republicans, that they just can’t run anything, even the important things, like Iraq. But I think that, that Karl, in the view of a lot of Republicans, is underselling the impact of the war.

First of all, in Connecticut, there was more at play than just Iraq. The exit polls show that a majority of the voters didn’t think Lamont had the experience to be senator, and he was a hard left position: “Get troops out now.” I think that made a lot of the Republicans who voted for Lieberman nervous. But make no mistake, six out of 10, according to the exit polls, Americans who voted said Iraq was the big issue, and they weren’t happy with how it’s going.

MR. RUSSERT: Maureen Dowd, here’s the cover of Newsweek magazine. “Father Knows Best.” With Bush 41, Bush 43, and it’s subtitled “With Congress Lost, Iraq in Chaos, Bush Calls In His Dad’s Team. Can James, James Baker and Company Save the Son’s Presidency?” Very similar to a column you wrote on Thursday. You think there’s truth to that?

MS. DOWD: Well, I think the best way for me to describe it is that, remember when parents would have their teenagers kidnapped by a Moony cult, and they would try and, and get him back, and deprogram him? That’s what’s—the, the 41 group is doing. They’re trying to get W back away from the cult of the neocons, as they see it, and reprogram him in the family tradition of internationalism, diplomacy, nuance. And Baker’s the deprogrammer.

MR. RUSSERT: You say this: James “‘Baker’s no fool,’ a Bush 41 official said. ‘He wasn’t going to go out there with a plan for Iraq and have Rummy shoot it down. He wanted a receptive audience. Everyone had to be on the same page before the plan is unveiled.’” That James Baker was involved in the dismissal of Donald Rumsfeld?

MS. DOWD: Well, I think—you know, I went to Texas A&M right after W’s presidency started, and the 41 group was already really worried about the belligerent attitude, the linear approach to foreign affairs. Black and white, having to inflate villains, and demote diplomacy. And, and they were worried about them blowing up the world, getting rid of international agreements, and that was before 9/11 and Iraq. So they have, you know, thought this team was on the wrong course, making things up as they go along, for a long time.

MORE FROM MEET THE PRESS

Meet the Press Section Front

Remembering Tim Russert July 20: Al Gore, political roundtable July 13: Carly Fiorina, Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO), politcal roundtable June 29: Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-CA), Gov. Dave Freudenthal (D-WY), Gov. Bill Ritter (D-CO), Chuck Todd June 22: Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE), Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), political roundtable June 15 transcript, video NBC's Tom Brokaw to moderate 'Meet the Press' through election   Images: The life of the political journalist   Slideshow: A look back at 60 years of 'Meet the Press' Find ‘Meet the Press’ in your area Meet the Press Section Front   Add Meet the Press headlines to your news reader: