MATTHEWS: We‘re back at Iowa State University with Arizona Senator John McCain, and this is very tricky territory, and not wishing to offend anyone watching right now, but the question was asked by one of the students here about the policy of the military towards openly gay people serving in the service of our country.

And yet, we now know, when we look at the page scandal, that gay people, as they always have been, are everywhere. They‘re part of our culture. They‘re part of our humanity. We have gays in Congress, gays in staff positions, in top political leadership. I suppose the Kinsey numbers apply to everywhere, regular incidence of gay people and straight people.

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Do you think that the cultural wing of your party is ready for that reality that‘s been exposed in the last couple of weeks?

MCCAIN: Well, I have not known of the—most of the Republican Party as being intolerant. I think that my party practices toleration and there are some people who are entitled to their views on this issue, but overall the policy of the Republican Party has been inclusive.

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Oct. 18: Sen. John McCain answers questions about homosexuality in the eyes of the Republican Party and the future of the presidency as part of the Hardball College Tour at Iowa State University.
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MATTHEWS: But in so many cases in the last president election—the gay marriage issue was used effectively to rally the Christian conservatives to the polls, and it helped bring about the majorities in states like Ohio. You‘re saying that your party has never taken a position adversarial to gay marriage and issues like that?

MCCAIN: On the issue of gay marriage, I do believe, and I think it‘s a correct policy that the sanctity of heterosexual marriage, a marriage between man and woman, should have a unique status. But I‘m not for depriving any other group of Americans from having rights. But I do believe that there is something that is unique between marriage between a man and a woman, and I believe it should be protected.

MATTHEWS: Should there be—should gay marriage be allowed?

MCCAIN: I think that gay marriage should be allowed, if there‘s a ceremony kind of thing, if you want to call it that. I don‘t have any problem with that, but I do believe in preserving the sanctity of a union between man and woman.

MATTHEWS: Let‘s talk about the politics of this case. It looks like Denny Hastert says he didn‘t know anything about the problem with Mark Foley, even though there was an incident where he, apparently intoxicated, late at night, went over the page dorm looking for people, young men. And do you believe it‘s possible he didn‘t know about any of these problems involving Mark Foley and pages and ex-pages? Do you think it‘s credible?

MCCAIN: I take him at his word. There are several investigations going on, and I think we will find out the truth, but I believe everyone has the right of presumption of innocence.

MATTHEWS: You called for former senators to do the investigating.

MCCAIN: Or congressmen, or respected people. You know, almost every major investigation we‘ve called in an outside counsel or a group of people. I think that that‘s an appropriate way to do it. But if not, I think that you will see an investigation. I understand the FBI is involved in this as well.

MATTHEWS: Do you think they‘re overdoing it, going back to your colleague, Jim Kolbe? You know, I‘ve known that guy too, I mean, for a long time. He seems like a good guy. And going back into a camping trip 10 years ago with a couple ex-pages, do you think that‘s called for here because of this Foley problem?

MCCAIN: I don‘t know what happened so I can‘t judge it. I do and will continue to say that Jim Kolbe is respected and a good friend of mine. I—again, I‘m—it would be hard for me to believe that Jim would do anything wrong.

But if there is reason for an investigation, and that‘s a decision made by the U.S. attorney, I think his office—or that has decided to conduct that investigation, I can‘t say they can‘t investigate it. If there‘s an allegation against me that‘s credible, then it should be investigated. I hope that Jim Kolbe—and I believe that he is innocent.

MATTHEWS: You know, it took 50 years for the House of Representatives, under Democratic rule, to sort of get the people saying enough of this. Your party has been in Congress now, in control, since ‘94, and yet there‘s so many signs like this. What do you make of these things?

The Abramoff scandal, which has already cost Robert Ney is career and perhaps Conrad Burns in the Senate, and the involvement with the Foley problem, and the overspending, the pork barrel—it seems like your party has been in a relatively short time. What do you make of these corruption things? Is it power tending to corrupt, and absolute power corrupt absolutely?

MCCAIN: I think that we have overspent. We have not been good stewards of the taxpayers‘ dollars. I think that we need to fix the earmarking system. I think it breeds corruption. I think it‘s a system when Cunningham was able to do all that, how was he able to do it all by himself with one lobbyist? So you‘ve got to fix the system.

I am very proud of many of the accomplishments under Republican stewardship. I think you just saw the Dow Jones Average hit an all-time high. I think we have a very healthy economy. These things don‘t happen by accident, low inflation, low unemployment, healthy economy. These things don‘t happen by accident. Low inflation, low unemployment. Do we have problems and challenges? Yes. But I still believe the Republican Party is in far better shape than the other party to lead this country.

But do we have to reform? Absolutely. We know that. You were just mentioning that there‘s polling numbers that show the approval rating number of Congress very low. If that approval rating is very low, then we ought to do what‘s necessary to try to restore the voters‘ confidence. And by the way, some of these allegations and stories are not just confined to the Republican Party issue.

MATTHEWS: Well, Bill Jefferson came up with $90,000 in his refrigerator on Capitol Hill.

MCCAIN: Cold cash.

MATTHEWS: Let me show you a picture of a young man who‘s making a lot of noise in American politics that‘s on the cover of “Time” magazine. I don‘t know what the hype is behind—what do you think is behind this hype? Possible president of the United States, he‘s only 45, two years of service in the U.S. Senate. Is a man of that limited experience ready for the presidency?

MCCAIN: I don‘t know. But that‘s why we have primaries and all that kind of stuff. But there‘s no doubt and Barack and I have had our differences from time to time.

MATTHEWS: Didn‘t you call him out once? I remember you called him out and he buckled.

MCCAIN: No, he didn‘t.

MATTHEWS: He did.

MCCAIN: I have worked with him...

MATTHEWS: ... Yes, he did.

MCCAIN: No, he didn‘t. I have worked with him on a ...

MATTHEWS: ... He folded, he folded.

MCCAIN: Stop.

MATTHEWS: You were the tough guy.

MCCAIN: He—I have worked with him on a broad variety of reform issues. He is a serious legislator. He has a great deal of charisma. I don‘t know if he runs for president or not this time, because I don‘t know that much about the Democratic Party or his ambitions. But he is a future leader of this country. I have great respect for him.

MATTHEWS: You just passed your 70^th birthday and you‘re seeing already these young comers, 45 coming over the Hill trying to make a reputation and you‘re the guy—you could be king of the Hill the next time. You could do it, you could go all the way and be president of the United States for eight full years. Do you feel you can beat guys like Barack Obama? Can you take this guy in 12 rounds? Can you do it?

MCCAIN: I think first it would be interesting where I run or not. But second is where I could win the primary or not. But we have a generation of young leaders in our Republican Party. We have John Thune, we have Lindsey Graham, we have John Sununu. We have Richard Burr. We have a pretty good crop of young senators and congressmen also that I think will give any of these young Democrats a struggle.

MATTHEWS: Do you think Lindsey would be a good running mate for you come next year? Lindsey Graham, JAG experience?

MCCAIN: Lindsey, Sununu, Thune, Burr, there‘s a broad variety of them, both in and out.

MATTHEWS: When will the McCain household get together and decide whether or not to make this big run for president?

MCCAIN: After Thanksgiving.

MATTHEWS: After Turkey day? What, Friday? Can I call you on Friday?

MCCAIN: Please do so. We have to get together.

MATTHEWS: HARDBALL would love to have you on and to talk about your plans.

MCCAIN: Can I just say again, I‘m focusing on this election. This is going to be a tough race for Republicans.

MATTHEWS: Can you hold the Senate?

MCCAIN: I believe so.

MATTHEWS: Where are you going to be working the next couple of weeks?

MCCAIN: I‘m going to be all over, including...

MATTHEWS: ... Missouri?

MCCAIN: New Jersey, I‘m going to be in California. I‘m going to be in...

MATTHEWS: ... You‘re going to get back and help Mike DeWine?

MCCAIN: Ohio. I‘m going to be in Ohio again.

MATTHEWS: Right, he‘s a tough one.

MCCAIN: I‘m going to be all over. I have a full schedule.

MATTHEWS: This is because you‘re not running for president?

MCCAIN: Every two years ago. You know.

MATTHEWS: You‘re traveling the country?

MCCAIN: You know that every two years ago I do this, Chris. Every two years I do this. I find that I‘m far more popular in even-numbered years than odd-numbered years.

MATTHEWS: OK, well we‘ll get to see that. Senator John McCain at Iowa State University. Here we are, big questions from the audience when we come back.

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CONTINUED

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