The White House's ‘State of Denial’

Mitchell: What do you think is most surprising? What that you learned has most surprised or even shocked you?

Woodward: Well, I think what's surprising is what surprised the Bush administration and the Pentagon and the CIA. And that is an insurgency which is so violent, so well coordinated, you know, organized, lethal-- and persistent. What surprised me is, if I may take one other example of this state of denial -- November 11, 2003. This is many months after the war, but the CIA guy, Rob Richer, the head of the Near East division in the CIA. It's one of the big important jobs in the CIA. He goes to brief President Bush and the National Security Council. And he says there's an insurgency. And Rumsfeld immediately challenges him and says, "I, you know, I don't agree with that." Or, "I don't know that." And the CIA man, very cleverly, says, "Well, here's the Pentagon definition of an insurgency." And it had the characteristics of this popular support. They strike whenever they want.  And it's extensive. And you then look at the classified reports and realize, my God, at this time there were 1,000 attacks a month. That's 30 a day. More than 30 a day. That's, you know, that's one every hour. One attack every hour. Now, when this is presented to Rumsfeld and President Bush, President Bush says, "No, I don't think we're not – I don't think we're there. I don't want to read about it in the New York Times."

Mitchell: They're more concerned about what's coming out publicly? And about public support and the politics, perhaps, than what's happening on the ground?

Woodward: Again, I'm not going to ascribe motives. The president said, "I don't think we're there. But I don't want any of my cabinet people saying there's an insurgency. I don't want the New York Times to find out." Wish he had mentioned the Washington Post. But, clearly, there's an insurgency.  there's an attack going on every hour in Iraq. In five years we haven't had one attack, terrorist attack, in this country. Not one. Imagine if there was one going on every hour. You know, what would you call it? You can't say this is business as usual. So the resistance to dealing with the reality here [is a] serious management problem. And that's why the book is called State of Denial.

Mitchell: Thank you very much, Bob.

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