The White House's ‘State of Denial’

Mitchell: The first lady's office said it never happened.

Woodward: Well, now you've got Andy Card saying that it did happen.

Mitchell: He doesn't confirm that Laura Bush said to him, "Oh, well, he doesn't agree with me, but..." the quote from Laura Bush in the book. He won't confirm those actual quotes.

Woodward: Well, I talked to Andy Card yesterday. And there were quotes of the transcripts of the interviews and he said yes. And, again, the White House has mischaracterized what's in the book. Because they said Woodward claims that the first lady wants Rumsfeld removed. The book does not say that. The book says she voiced concerns she was upset about to Card. Now, I mean, you live in this town like I do. I mean, everyone has been talking about Rumsfeld for years. The idea that the First Lady might have some concern and worry can't possibly be surprising to anyone.

Mitchell: Well, perhaps surprising because this first lady has so studiously avoided getting mixed into the policy issues and personnel issues. This isn't Nancy Reagan. And what you portray in the book, in this incident, is very much like what Nancy Reagan did with Ron Reagan.

Woodward: Well, Laura Bush, the first librarian, very smart woman. And she knows the importance of the Iraq war to the country and the world and to her husband. And to the families and people, you know, close to the 147,000 troops we have over there. She hasn't gotten her head in it to saying it. And I find it not at all surprising. And I suspect when the history books come out down the road that there will be much discussion and concern about this. I mean, there's no way you could be married to somebody and not realize, as I report in the book, the president feels a lot of anguish about the people who are wounded and die in the Iraq war.

Mitchell: One other dispute involves General Abizaid. You report that in Doha, he and the president, possibly some of his old buddies from the military expressed concerns about Rumsfeld. Said that Rumsfeld has lost credibility -- war credibility. And that we need to get the F out of Baghdad. He said that never happened.

Woodward: And that somebody talked to General Abizaid about that directly.  I think he's talking through a spokesman.

Mitchell: His spokesman in Doha?

Woodward: Yes. I'm sure somebody will ask him about it. I talked to people who were there. And again, it's not surprising. This is last year. And it turned out the issue about credibility had to do with who was going to enunciate the strategy for the war in Iraq. And it turned out that it was Condi Rice and the president. Not Don Rumsfeld. And it turned out when Condi Rice and the president said our strategy in Iraq is clear -- hold and build -- that we'll clear areas, build them up and hold territory in Iraq – Rumsfeld was very upset. In fact, called Andy Card and said take that out of the speech. Take it out. So they can't even agree on the strategy. It does surprise me that the commander on the ground would confide to friends that on the issue of the strategy, Rumsfeld had no credibility. That the administration, in a practical sense, would not lose sight of that. Essentially said that because it's the Secretary of State and the president who announced it -- not Rumsfeld.

Mitchell: So you have no doubts about the quotations from General Abizaid?

Woodward: I have no doubts about the reporting of those quotes.

Mitchell: The White House, as you know, has sent out sort of a fact sheet, of five myths about the Woodward book. You make one intelligence assessments in May 24th, conflicting the president's Chicago speech two days earlier. Do you want to leave us there in a bubble?

Woodward: I will, certainly. I mean, what they say is the president said in Chicago it's going to be hard. But the president also said in Chicago that the terrorists are in retreat. And the secret intelligence reports contradict that. And those reports say it's getting worse. Now, there's the difference between something getting worse and the feeling that they are in retreat -- the terrorists. So the contradiction is there on the record.

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