Transcript for Sept. 24

MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: In his second annual Global Initiative conference, former President Bill Clinton convenes leaders from around the world to discuss poverty, religion, the environment and more.  Participants include first lady Laura Bush, Pakistan’s President Musharraf, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates, and former first lady and current New York Senator Hillary Clinton. Policy and politics through the eyes of our guest, the 42^nd president of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton.

Then, another speaker at that conference, Afghanistan’s President Hamid Karzai, joins us to talk about the Taliban insurgency, the hunt for Osama bin Laden, and the war on terrorism.

Plus, a discussion of the role of conservative Christians in our political process with former Republican senator and ordained Episcopal priest John Danforth, author of “Faith and Politics.”

But first, on Friday, I sat down with former President Clinton at the conclusion of his second annual Global Initiative conference in New York City.

Mr. President, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

FMR. PRES. BILL CLINTON: Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT: The second year of the Clinton Global Initiative. What did you achieve this year?

MR. CLINTON: Well, in dollar terms, as we left we had 215 commitments worth over $7 billion. Last year at this time, when we left we had about 170 commitments worth $1 ½ billion. We wound up with 300 worth $2 ½ billion, so we’ll have some more come in. We’ll probably get up to 300 commitments, maybe more.

MR. RUSSERT: Do people keep their commitments?

MR. CLINTON: Almost all of them do. In this last year I would say there are only—of the people who came last year who were what you called commitment-eligible—that is, the experts that we come—that we bring in, or the people representing low-income countries and poor people around the world, or the heads of the state that, you know, they don’t have to commit—but of the people that did, we only had about 15 who either didn’t make a commitment, or did—or made one and then made no effort to keep it. So the overwhelming number of people come here because they’re going to be asked to do something, and because they want to do something. And they either want to select or perfect their commitment while they’re here. So we’ve got some people we’ll work with over the next month or so, and then we’ll have more of these commitments come in.

MR. RUSSERT: And you focus on poverty, religious and ethnic conflict, energy and climate change, and global public health.

MR. CLINTON: That’s right.

MR. RUSSERT: People make a commitment to invest in one of those programs...

MR. CLINTON: Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: ...somewhere in the world?

MR. CLINTON: Money, volunteer time, expertise. Something.

MR. RUSSERT: Time is important, almost as important as money.

MR. CLINTON: Absolutely. I—that’s why I always say—I’m a little bit reluctant to even emphasize the aggregate amount of money we raise, because some of our most important things don’t cost much money. And I—for example, today, I talked about this group of people who devised a way for Afghan farmers to switch out of growing poppies—and they grow 92 percent of the world’s poppy now, that makes the opium and heroin...

MR. RUSSERT: Up 60 percent in one year.

MR. CLINTON: Up 60 percent in one year. And the central government losing control. So what—we decided that if we wanted to have an impact there, it would have to be a private sector initiative. It would have to be more economical for poor, insecure farmers.

So we’ve—this project developed a model to use orchards or woodlots in a way that would support a family of eight with a higher return per acre than poppy to the actual farmers. So that’s a big, big deal.

MR. RUSSERT: If it worked in Afghanistan, you could roll it out around other countries.

MR. CLINTON: Yes. You know, our country, our government has spent quite a lot of money in Colombia, and in countries—in the Andean countries, not only helping to build up the security forces to fight the narco-traffickers and their guerrilla supporters, but also trying to help farmers in that region convert off of growing coca. And it—the economics have been quite challenging. So we know we might find out some things in Afghanistan that could change that all over the world.

MR. RUSSERT: As we sit here in September of 2006, what do you think is the biggest problem confronting our world? The biggest?

MR. CLINTON: In the short term it is the illusion that our differences matter more than our common humanity. That’s what’s driving the terrorism.  It’s not just that there’s an unresolved Arab/Israeli conflict. Osama bin Laden and Dr. al-Zawahiri can convince young Sunni-Arab men who have—and some women—who have despairing conditions in their lives that they get a one-way ticket to heaven in a hurry if they kill a lot of innocent people who don’t share their reality. That means they—by definition, everything about them is, the differences are more important. And that’s driving the terror, that’s driving the attempt to acquire for terrorist groups small-scale chemical and biological and maybe even someday nuclear stuff.

In the longer term, climate change is the biggest threat, because if it’s allowed to come to fruition—and particularly if we’re, at the same time, running out of affordable, recoverable oil—you’re going to have a—almost over night—a dramatic change in the way we live, and it will cause millions of food refugees, it’ll cause probably food and water wars, and it could change the underlying conditions on which our civilization rests. So I’d say terror, based on human difference today, climate change over the long run.

MR. RUSSERT: As you travel around the world, what do people say about the image of the United States?

MR. CLINTON: Well, different people say different things. But I think that the real problem—it’s generally assumed, I think, in Washington, that, that the problem the American image has is that a lot of people disagree with President Bush, and it’s basically about Iraq. I, I think it’s a little more complicated than that. That is, I think it—it’s true that in the Middle East and many places out the un—in the independent, unaligned countries, they don’t necessarily agree with our Iraq policy, but I think it’s more the feeling that that’s just the most severe example of a country that is more committed to doing what it wants when it wants, and not listening to other people and working with them whenever possible. And the bigger you are and the wealthier you are and the more traditional power than you have, the more you have to be sensitive to how you’re perceived by other people, the more you at least have to want to have people think that even if you don’t agree with them, you’re kind of on their side. And I don’t think America has any significant image problems that couldn’t be turned around rather quickly with a different way of dealing with people.

I also believe that, in the Muslim world, at least, if there were a resumption of serious Israeli/Palestinian peace talks, that would help a lot, because everybody knows that in the end, that situation can’t be resolved, in all probability, unless we’re involved in a supportive way in what happens after they sign the deal.

MR. RUSSERT: What did you think when Colin Powell said, “The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism”?

MR. CLINTON: I think he was referring to the, the questions that have been raised about the original evidence, which plagues him and in which he was, I think, unwittingly complicit. I don’t think—I think it’s pretty clear, based on what all the people that worked for him have said. I think he was most worried about the question of torture and the conduct of the prisons at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. And of course, he weighed in in this debate about the extent to which the CIA or others could engage in conduct which clearly violates the Geneva Convention.

Now, we—as you and I talk, and we hear that they’ve reached an agreement, the senators and the White House, and I hope they have. But Colin pointed out that, you know, we’ve got soldiers all over the world. If we get a reputation for torturing people, the following bad things are going to happen: We’re as likely going to get bad information is good, just for people to just quit getting beat on; two, we’re likely to create two or three or five enemies for every one we break; and three, we make our own soldiers much more vulnerable to conduct which violates the Geneva Convention. That is, we can’t expect our friends, much less our enemies, to accept the fact that because we’re the good guys, we get to have a different standard of conduct. And most people think the definition of a good guy is someone who voluntarily observes a different standard of conduct, not someone who claims the right to do things others can’t do.

MR. RUSSERT: Would you outlaw waterboarding and sleep deprivation, loud music, all those kinds of tactics?

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