Transcript for Sept. 17

Senator Allen, this week you have to cast a vote. Senator John Warner, John McCain, Lindsey Graham, but your senior colleague in Virginia, John Warner, has a view about interrogating and prosecuting enemy combatants. It is different than George W. Bush. Will you vote for Senator Warner or for President Bush?

SEN. ALLEN: I’m going to make a determination once I get some more facts.  There, there are three key differences in this, but there’s one that matters the most to me, and it’s not all the evidentiary aspects which I think we can do a better job than various proposals on that, and that has to do with the—some of the evidentiary aspects. The key—the two key points for people to understand as this debate goes forward, and whether we vote this week or next week, I will vote on it, you’ll know where I stand, but I want to let you know what I’m going to look at.

Number one, these interrogations have helped protect American lives and not just here at home but also in the battlefield. Secondly, the Geneva Convention is very important, and I don’t want to set a precedent that we change the Geneva Convention and then other countries will change theirs, and if one of our troops or one of our CIA agents is, is caught...

MR. RUSSERT: In Iran.

SEN. ALLEN: ...or captured—in Iran or Cuba or Venezuela...

MR. RUSSERT: Well, that’s Senator Warner’s view.

SEN. ALLEN: Right. Now, the key in all of this is I don’t want to stop these interrogations. I’m not for torture, I’m not for waterboarding, but some of these techniques have been very helpful to us, whether, whether they are sleep deprivation, or whether there’s loud music. And I need to be absolutely certain that what the interrogations—interrogators are doing now—which is completely fine as far as I’m concerned, protecting Americans—will not be harmed by the proposal.

MR. RUSSERT: You know, your critics say that you voted with George Bush 96 percent of the time your five years in the Senate. This time, would you vote for Senator Warner, or President Bush?

SEN. ALLEN: I’m going to vote for what’s in the best interests of protecting this country, and making sure that our people here at home, as well as our troops abroad and, and undercover agents for our country are protected. I believe it can be done. I think there can be changes. I actually look forward to taking action, to be a bridge—a bridge between these two proposals, which all have as the same purpose protecting America, and upholding our values. But they, but, but...

MR. RUSSERT: Colin Powell, Colin Powell, who’s a constituent of yours, said, “The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism. To redefine Common Article 3” of the Geneva Convention “would add to those doubts. Furthermore, it would put our own troops at risk.” Do you agree with Secretary Powell that the world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism?

SEN. ALLEN: I, I don’t believe that the world is doubting our commitment and our resolve to fight these maniacal terrorists. I think...

MR. RUSSERT: No, the moral basis of our fight, is his quote.

SEN. ALLEN: The moral, the moral basis of our fight against terror, and these maniacal deviants...

MR. RUSSERT: So you disagree with Secretary Powell?

SEN. ALLEN: I’m not saying I disagree, I’d just use a different point of view. And our point of view is we, we need to win against these, these terrorist organizations.

MR. RUSSERT: Where do you come down on this? Are you with the Senator Warner-McCain version, or President Bush’s version of dealing with interrogating and prosecuting enemy combatants?

MR. WEBB: I, I’m with Senator Warner on this, and I think in terms of what Colin Powell is saying, that’s, that’s a very important piece of how we view—how we deal long-term with the Islamic world particularly, that we have to stay on the moral high ground. And what you’re seeing here is, is a split between the theorists, who have controlled so much of the policy in this administration, theorists who have never been on a battlefield, who have never put a uniform on, and who are looking at this thing in a totally different way from people who have had to, to worry about their troops and themselves possibly coming under enemy hands. This is a very easy issue for, for me to, to decide on.

MR. RUSSERT: But you would not end interrogation?

MR. WEBB: No. Obviously we have to protect ourselves, and we have to be able to get information out. But if you, if you in any way abrogate...

MR. RUSSERT: And you would protect the CIA officers...

MR. WEBB: If you, if you abrogate the, the standards of the Geneva Accords, you give other nations who have less fair standards than ours the, the justification, the moral justification to do that. We, we saw that in a, in a, in a way—I’m sure Senator McCain has, has long memories about this—during the Vietnam War when the North Vietnamese refused to call our prisoners of war prisoners of war. They simply called them war criminals. They said they, they weren’t a part of the, the Geneva Accords, and they didn’t respect the Geneva Accords. And I’m sure that’s on, on people’s minds. That’s certainly on my mind when I think about troops over in Iraq right now.

MR. RUSSERT: We’re going to take...

SEN. ALLEN: That’s—and that’s why the precedent here is so important. And we’ve got to get this right. We cannot shut down this interrogation effort and the techniques that we have been using that have protected Americans. I believe that people of good will can come together and, and craft that language.

MR. RUSSERT: We’re going to take...

MR. WEBB: But you have to worry about one thing also here, that tainted evidence often comes from torture, and I think John McCain has made that point very well. If we’re coercing...

SEN. ALLEN: Well, we’re, we’re not for torture.

MR. WEBB: ...coercing information—not all—you don’t always have the right information. That’s how we ended up in Iraq.

MR. RUSSERT: We have to take a quick break. We’ll be right back with more of our discussion, our debate, the state of Virginia, the U.S. Senate seat, George Allen and Jim Webb, right after this.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT: The Virginia U.S. Senate debate: Republican George Allen, Democrat Jim Webb, after this station break.

(Announcements)

MORE FROM MEET THE PRESS

Meet the Press Section Front

Nov. 8: Casey, Barbour, Rendell, roundtable, Brokaw Nov. 1: Tim Geithner, David Plouffe, roundtable Oct. 25: Cornyn, Schumer, Burnett, Sorkin, roundtable Oct. 18: Jarrett, Dodd, Kyl, Shriver, Podesta Oct. 11: Levin, Graham, McCaffrey, Myers, roundtable Oct. 4: Ambassador Susan Rice, roundtable Sept. 27: Bill Clinton, Paterson, Kyl, Webb Sept. 20: President Obama, Sen. Graham, Rep. Boehner, roundtable Sept. 13: Durbin, Cornyn, Dean, Gingrich, roundtable Sept. 6: Axelrod, roundtable Meet the Press Section Front   Add Meet the Press headlines to your news reader: