Transcript for July 30
Dan Gillerman, Nouhad Mahmoud, Thomas L. Friedman
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MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: Day 19 of the fighting in Israel and Lebanon. Is anyone winning? Is there any end in sight? With us: exclusive Sunday morning interviews with the Israeli representative to the U.N., Ambassador Dan Gillerman; and the Lebanese special envoy, Ambassador Nouhad Mahmoud.
Then, 16 years ago he wrote a definitive work on the Middle East, “From Beirut to Jerusalem.” He has just returned from the region, and this morning he shares his insights and analysis: Tom Friedman of The New York Times.
But first, dramatic developments overnight in the continuing crisis in the Middle East. Several hours ago, during the course of her meeting with Israeli officials in Jerusalem, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was informed of an Israeli missile attack that hit several homes in the southern Lebanese village of Qana. Lebanese officials say at least 50 are dead, including many children. Secretary Rice has now postponed her afternoon trip to Beirut. An emotional Lebanese prime minister responded and spoke out this morning.
(Videotape, This Morning):
MR. FUAD SINIORA: We scream out to our fellow Lebanese and to other Arab brothers and to the whole world to stand united in the face of the Israeli war criminals. The persistence of Israel in its heinous crimes against our civilians will not break the will of the Lebanese people. There is no place on this sad morning for any discussion other than an immediate and unconditional cease-fire, as well as the international investigation into the Israeli massacres in Lebanon now.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: Let’s go live to Jerusalem where NBC’s Andrea Mitchell is traveling with Secretary of State Rice.
Andrea, you just heard the Lebanese prime minister say there’s no need to talk. He wants an immediate and unconditional cease-fire. What does this do to the negotiations, to the shuttle diplomacy of Secretary Rice?
MS. ANDREA MITCHELL: Well, potentially it scuttles her shuttle diplomacy. It means now she will meet again with Prime Minister Olmert here in Israel and clearly express her distress. I’m told that they are very angry with the Israelis for having launched this rocket attack after last night Secretary Rice told the prime minister that she wanted him to show maximum restraint. They thought that they were closing, closing on a deal. She was scheduled to go to Beirut today. Now, Tim, it may be impossible for her to return to Beirut. She may have to come home empty-handed. Tim:
MR. RUSSERT: Andrea, let me show you the scene in downtown Beirut today when thousands of Lebanese citizens took to the street and forcefully entered the United Nations headquarters, kicking and smashing and, and inflicting damage on that building. Is there any sense with the U.S. delegation that perhaps it may have been a mistake to give the green light to Israel to continue their incursion into Lebanon for days and weeks? And how concerned are American officials about public opinion in Lebanon, particularly with Sunni Muslims and Christian Lebanese, who are not disposed to support Hezbollah?
MS. MITCHELL: Well, they are very concerned. In fact, this really does weaken Prime Minister Siniora, and they were trying to strengthen him. This strengthens Hezbollah, and indirectly its sponsor, Iran. It undercuts the prime minister—the Lebanese prime minister’s ability to cut a deal. They would argue that they didn’t give a total green light to Israel, that they were urging restraint, and they now believe that they have to impress Israel with the fact that Israel has to give something up. So she’s going to try to win some concessions—some further political concessions from Israel, before returning home. But this really does weaken the U.S. hand and make it likely that now everything will move to the United Nations, where the U.S. is not playing from strength. There will be increasing pressure for an immediate cease-fire, Tim.
MR. RUSSERT: Andrea Mitchell, thanks very much for the report, and please be safe.
Let’s go to NBC’s Richard Engel, who’s in the town of Tyre in southern Lebanon. He has just returned from Qana, the site of the missile attack.
Richard, what did you see, what did you witness?
MR. RICHARD ENGEL: When we arrived, we saw this destroyed building, it was a three-story home under construction. There’d been dozens of people in the basement of this house, mostly women and children it, appears. I counted 11 bodies of small boys, perhaps aged eight to 10. They were being carried out, some on stretchers, some were being carried out just in blankets, one body on top of the other. It—the most of the, the children looked like they died from blast injuries. The bodies were intact, but they were bleeding from their ears and from their noses. Then we went to the morgue and saw about 22 bodies lined up on the floor. They were wrapped in plastic, tied shut in packaging tape.
Remarkably, several people did survive, and we went to the hospital, and we spoke with one woman who was in this shelter at the time. She dug herself out of it. She was buried up to the waist in rubble. She also dug one of her children out who was below her, totally covered in rubble, but her daughter she was not able to find, and she was among the victims today.
MR. RUSSERT: Richard, the Israelis have made a point that they leafletted that area, they have asked people to leave there, that in fact it was a target zone. Why didn’t the people in that particular area leave?
MR. ENGEL: Many towns like Qana, there are still people living there who can’t go. They are very poor, they have no way out, they don’t have cars, there’s no taxi service. Some people have just walked. But even if these poor people left towns like Qana, where are they going to go? If they came to this city, for example, there might not be any place for them to stay. So these are really the poorest of the poor. They have been—they have fled their homes. This woman I spoke to who lived through the attack had fled her home—fled her home about 11 days ago because all of the surrounding homes had been destroyed, and they felt they were safe in this shelter. It was on the outskirts of town, an area that, as they said, had not been hit before.
MR. RUSSERT: Richard, did you see any indication, any evidence of the Hezbollah militia? In fact, is that area of Qana a Hezbollah stronghold?
MR. ENGEL: It certainly is. There were no Hezbollah militiamen or gunmen on the scene, but people I spoke to clearly were sympathetic to Hezbollah. I spoke with one man who was there helping to evacuate some of the people from the area, to make room for heavy bulldozers that were still looking for bodies. He had Hezbollah tattoos on his arms. So there is—there were Hezbollah flags all around the, the town. So it clearly is an area with tremendous Hezbollah support.
MR. RUSSERT: Richard Engel, we thank you very much.
Now let’s go to New York. We are joined by the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations; Dan Gillerman is joining us.
Mr. Ambassador, good morning. You have just...
MR. DAN GILLERMAN: Good morning, Tim.
MR. RUSSERT: You’ve just heard these reports. The prime minister of Lebanon has called for an immediate and unconditional cease-fire. Will Israel agree to that?
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