MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday: Crisis in the Middle East, and what should the United States do about the so-called “axis of evil”—Iraq, Iran and North Korea? Two men with very different views. For the Democrats: Senator Joe Biden of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee; and for the Republicans: former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, author of “Winning the Future.” Biden and Gingrich square off.

Then, three years ago, Robert Novak wrote this column naming Valerie Plame as a CIA operative, which led to an investigation by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, resulting in the indictment of Vice President Cheney’s chief of staff, Scooter Libby. On Wednesday Novak explained his role in the investigation. And this Sunday morning, he joins us exclusively.

But first, day five of the fighting in the Middle East. What happened overnight? The very latest from Lebanon and Israel. In Beirut: Richard Engel of NBC News.

Richard, the Lebanese prime minister went on the air and said that he is considering sending the Lebanese Army into southern Lebanon to try to take control of the situation from the militant Hezbollah. Will that happen?

MR. RICHARD ENGEL: There are grave risks to that. There is no guarantee that his army can actually confront Hezbollah, that it will be strong enough to, to take control, and if they were to go into a confrontation, that could risk reigniting the civil war here. Tim:

MR. RUSSERT: Richard, is there any hope of this ending soon? What could be done? Who could possibly intervene to resolve this? And do you expect Israel to go actually into southern Lebanon?

MR. ENGEL: Everyone here says it depends on the United States and Syria—the U.S. to pressure Israel, Syria to call off Hezbollah. It—the likely scenario here is that Israel will enter the south, will take over a strip a few kilometers wide. Then, as the fighting continues, there will continue to be Israeli air strikes in the south and here in Beirut. Negotiations will begin, Israel saying that it will pull out of that area if the Lebanese government takes control, perhaps with international supervision. But those negotiations and the fighting could take months, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT: Richard, there are 25,000 Americans in Lebanon. What are the plans to try to evacuate those Americans?

MR. ENGEL: The plans right now are to allow the Americans who want to leave—and all the ones we’ve spoken to certainly do want to leave. The U.S. Embassy here is overwhelmed with calls. They—concerned Americans calling about six or seven an minute, according to an Embassy spokesperson. The plans are still being formulated, but they would bring them out to Cyprus, and then Americans would have to make their way back home after that. We’re told it will take place this week. Tim:

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MR. RUSSERT: Richard Engel in Beirut, Lebanon. Please be safe.

Now, let’s go to Haifa, Israel, the third-largest city in that country. We’re joined by NBC’s Martin Fletcher.

Martin, the Haifa train station struck last night by Hezbollah missiles. What is the mood in Israel about this five-day war?

MR. MARTIN FLETCHER: Well, Tim, I think that the Israelis are 100 percent behind the—their government. Every single person we’ve spoken to from the left or right says that. They all say that this is a war waiting to happen. One man graphically said, “How long can we live with a knife to our neck?” he said, and he’s referring to Hezbollah’s 10,000 to 13,000 rockets which are aimed at Israel.

So Israel has always said, “We have to destroy Hezbollah.” When the two soldiers were kidnapped, that was their excuse to go in, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT: Martin, President Bush said in Russia this morning that Israel has to defend itself, but it should use restraint, “mindful of the consequences.” What are the potential consequences that confront Israel?

MR. FLETCHER: Well, you know, the problem is, Tim, this can go out of control very, very rapidly. Israel’s pointing at Syrian involvement, they’re accusing Iran of, of, of arming Hezbollah, which, of course, all the security services in the world say is true. So, the more Israel punishes Lebanon, the more Israel talks about potentially a ground invasion of Lebanon, even if only for a short term—for a short time, it can spiral out of control. So the consequences could be a very significant escalation of the fighting, even some are warning of a regional war, which is the last thing Israel wants. They don’t want to send in their army, they don’t want to extend the war. They do want to destroy Hezbollah, and they have said they’ll do whatever it takes to do that. Now, the longer this fighting continues, the greater the dangers are that they’ll lose control of it. Tim:

MR. RUSSERT: Hezbollah, as you well know, Martin, kidnapped two Israeli soldiers, which prompted this response. Was this part of the Israeli agenda to look for an opportunity to eradicate Hezbollah?

MR. FLETCHER: I think so very strongly. I mean, they’ve never—they’ll never say that publicly, but don’t forget that when Israel left—ended their occupation of south Lebanon in the year 2000, the deal was that the Lebanese Army would go in and police the border. Well, they never did that. Instead, Hezbollah moved in with all those rockets, and ever since then, about—for that last five years, Israel’s been planning what to do, how to fight Hezbollah, how to destroy them. So this is, this is not a quick reaction to a kidnapping, it’s the implementation of a plan Israel’s been working on for five years with very specific targets. They call it a work plan. They’re going step by step. And incidents like this one here, you see the, the great hole in the, in the roof behind me, eight people died just here just a couple of hours ago. That’s bad for Israel, it, it’s a huge failure for Israel. But they’re not going to react specifically to this killing. They’re going to go step by step, and they made that very clear, and they’ll go step by step until they achieve their goals, or, of course, until someone steps in and stops them. That could only be the United States.

MR. RUSSERT: Martin Fletcher in Haifa, Israel. Thank you for that report, and be safe.

And now, joining us in Washington, Democratic senator Joe Biden, former Republican Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich. Welcome, both.

Mr. Speaker, what are we witnessing in the Middle East?

MR. NEWT GINGRICH: Well, let me, let me offer three observations. First, this is not the fifth day of the war. This is the 58^th year of the effort by those who want to destroy Israel. As Ahmadinejad, the head of Iran, says, he wants to defeat the Americans and eliminate Israel from the face of the earth. So we should not see this event in isolation. There is an Iran/Iraq/Syria—I mean, an Iran/Syria—was an Iraq before Saddam was replaced—Syria, Hezbollah and Hamas alliance trying to destroy Israel.

Second, the Israelis withdrew from Gaza to create the circumstance of peace. The Israelis withdrew from south Lebanon to create the circumstance of peace. They now have a thousand missiles fired from Gaza, they’ve had hundreds of missiles fired from south Lebanon. You clearly have Iranian involvement, there are at least 400 Iranian guards in south Lebanon. Apparently it was an Iranian missile fired by Iranians which hit an Israeli warship yesterday. The United States should be saying to Syria and Iran, “South Lebanon is going to be cleared out. We are for Israel and the Lebanese government breaking the back of Hezbollah, getting rid of all 10,000 to 13,000 missiles, and we will decisively stop any effort by Syria and Iran to intervene.”

I mean, this is absolutely a question of the survival of Israel, but it’s also a question of what is really a world war. Look what you’ve been covering: North Korea firing missiles. We say there’ll be consequences, there are none. The North Koreans fire seven missiles on our Fourth of July; bombs going off in Mumbai, India; a war in Afghanistan with sanctuaries in Pakistan. As I said a minute ago, the, the Iran/Syria/Hamas/Hezbollah alliance. A war in Iraq funded largely from Saudi Arabia and supplied largely from Syria and Iran. The British home secretary saying that there are 20 terrorist groups with 1200 terrorists in Britain. Seven people in Miami videotaped pledging allegiance to al-Qaeda, and 18 people in Canada being picked up with twice the explosives that were used in Oklahoma City, with an explicit threat to bomb the Canadian parliament, and saying they’d like to behead the Canadian prime minister. And finally, in New York City, reports that in three different countries people were plotting to destroy the tunnels of New York.

I mean, we, we are in the early stages of what I would describe as the third world war, and frankly, our bureaucracies aren’t responding fast enough, we don’t have the right attitude about this, and this is the 58^th year of the war to destroy Israel. And frankly, the Israelis have every right to insist that every single missile leave south Lebanon and that the United States ought to be helping the Lebanese government have the strength to eliminate Hezbollah as a military force, not as a political force in the parliament, but as a military force in south Lebanon.

MR. RUSSERT: This is World War III?

CONTINUED

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