Transcript for May 21

DR. RICE: I, I do not think Iraq has limited our options. Iraq and Iran are very different places, quite apart from what is going on now. The circumstances that led us to do what we did in Iraq are very, very different than the circumstances we face in Iran.

MR. RUSSERT: But Iran is clearly a much more serious threat than Iraq.

DR. RICE: Well, I, I certainly wouldn’t say that. We went to war with Iraq, let’s remember, and, and...

MR. RUSSERT: But they didn’t have weapons of mass destruction.

DR. RICE: No. That’s—Tim , let’s, let’s remember that in 1991 we found that their weapons of mass destruction programs were far further developed than anyone knew. There was then a long period under U.N. Security Council resolution of where they would not answer questions about extremely dangerous programs.

MR. RUSSERT: But in terms of threat to the United States, what we found in March of 2003 is that Iraq was not nearly the threat Iran is now.

DR. RICE: But, Tim, of course, you know what you know at the time.

MR. RUSSERT: Sure.

DR. RICE: And when we made the decision to go into Iraq, there--, everybody believed there were weapons of mass destruction. But Saddam Hussein was also a tremendously destabilizing force, against whom we had gone to war. Iran is a dangerous state today because of its nuclear ambitions, but also because of its activities in the region. And we’re dealing with that through a concerted international effort in which we have as tight coordination and agreement with our European allies as I’ve frankly ever seen on any issue.

MR. RUSSERT: Will George W. Bush leave office as president of the United States with a nuclear arms development program in place in Iran?

DR. RICE: Well, it is certainly our view, and the view of our allies, that the world cannot accept the Iranians’ current position. We can’t allow Iran to move steadily toward a, toward nuclear weapons because it would be tremendously destabilizing in this already volatile region. We have a lot of tools at our disposal. We have three tracks: the U.N. Security Council track, which we will pursue; we have the negotiating track, which we will pursue—and by the way, the United States will support that track and support it fully; and, we have the—whatever states, like-minded states may wish to do outside of the Security Council, with financial measures and the like.

MR. RUSSERT: And a military option as well?

DR. RICE: The president’s not going to take any option off the table, but we believe that this is something that can be resolved diplomatically. We have many steps yet to take, and Iran cannot, can, can really not stand the kind of international isolation that could be brought upon it if we don’t—if they don’t find a way to change course.

MR. RUSSERT: Are you concerned about the, not only the eavesdropping that had been reported earlier of calls being made from the U.S. to foreign country, but now the collection of data done on domestic phone calls?

DR. RICE: Tim, the president has spoken to the program of, of surveillance that was—allowed us to understand what was going on outside the country in connection to what was going on inside the country. That link had to be made. Mike Hayden has spoken to this extensively in his, in his testimony, in his confirmation hearings, and the president has assured the American people that he has acted within the law, but that he’s done everything within the law to help protect and preserve the country.

MR. RUSSERT: During the campaign he said every time—any time he’d get a wiretap, he’d get a court order. That has not been the case.

DR. RICE: The president has, has made very clear that what he is doing is under his authorities as commander in chief, but also under legal authorities. I’m not going to get into the, the debate that the lawyers may have about this, but I can tell you that this president is committed to two goals simultaneously. First, that he’s going to protect the privacy of the American people because that’s who we are. But he’s also going to protect us as a country and in order to do that, I think Americans understand that you can’t have a situation in which al-Qaeda and people associated to—with al-Qaeda are having conversations inside the country that connect to countries—to conversations outside the country and we can’t monitor them.

MR. RUSSERT: But this is collection of data within the U.S.

DR. RICE: Tim, I, I’m not going to get into the details of our intelligence programs. But let me just note, the issue is, can we both protect our privacy and protect our country? The president believes that we can. He has undertaken steps to do that. And I might say that Mike Hayden—who I’ve known, by the way, since we were—he was a lieutenant colonel on the Joint Staff and I was a fellow there—is someone who is a man of integrity, someone who will do a very fine job of running the Central Intelligence Agency, and someone who’s equally committed, as the president is, to both privacy and protection.

MR. RUSSERT: And to be continued. We thank you very much for sharing your views.

DR. RICE: Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT: Coming next, two Republicans with very different views on immigration: South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham vs. Georgia Congressman Charlie Norwood. They square off on illegal immigration: mass deportation or a path to citizenship? Right here on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT: The immigration debate within the Republican Party. Senator Lindsey Graham, Congressman Charlie Norwood, after this station break.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT: And we are back.

Congressman Norwood, Senator Graham, welcome both.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Good morning.

REP. CHARLIE NORWOOD (R-GA): Good morning, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT: Congressman Graham, Senator Norwood put out a press release. “He’s going to appear on MEET THE PRESS and debate Senator Graham who supports a Senate plan to grant amnesty to all illegal immigrants.” Why did you do that?

SEN. GRAHAM: Why did I put it out?

REP. NORWOOD: I put it out.

MR. RUSSERT: Why—do you support amnesty for all illegal immigrants?

SEN. GRAHAM: No. Amnesty to me is what Jimmy Carter did with draft dodgers. “Come on back and all is forgiven.” This is a pathway to citizenship that takes 11 years. I agree with the president. There’s got to be some middle ground between mass deportation, which won’t work, or putting 11 million people in jail, which won’t work, and immediate citizenship.

This bill doesn’t grant anybody immediate citizenship. If you fail to learn English, you’ve got to pay a fine, you’ve got to constantly be employed for 45 days for a six-year period, then you get a green card and you have to do the same thing all over again for five more. So at the end of 11 years, you are eligible if you make—go through all these gates to get at the back of the line to become an American citizen. There is no determined outcome. The outcome is dependent upon what the individual does. If you do the things we ask of you for 11 years, in my opinion, you’re a value-added product to the American economy and the American culture and we’d love to have you.

MR. RUSSERT: Why would you define that as amnesty?

REP. NORWOOD: Well, the definition of amnesty is elusive. It’s sort of like the word is. We can’t seem to agree on what amnesty actually means. What I think the Senate bill basically says is that if you are a foreigner and you’ve come in our country illegally, they say you can stay and at some point in time you can become a citizen. Now, that’s sort of what they came here to be here for to start with. They came here illegally to stay and we’re actually saying in the Senate bill that you can do that. And I also want to point out, I don’t know anybody that has a bill that requires mass deportation. Nobody is saying that. We’re not suggesting that that’s the solution. We are suggesting, though, that if you allow people to come into the country illegally and reward them for being here illegally, which is what you’re doing when you say you can stay, you can be on our social programs until finally you can become a citizen. That’s...

MR. RUSSERT: Congressman, what happens to the 11 million illegal immigrants now in our country?

REP. NORWOOD: What happens to them when?

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