Rudy Giuliani: 'I’m disappointed'

Chris Matthews Host of 'Hardball' • Profile

A federal jury decided today that al-Qaida conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui must spend life in prison for his role in the 9/11 attacks.

Chris Matthews spoke with Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani about his reaction to the verdict.  This is a transcript of their conversation.

CHRIS MATTHEWS, HOST, "HARDBALL": Your thoughts must be going back to 9/11 right now with this, the first verdict really in the case of 9/11. 

RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. NEW YORK MAYOR:   Oh, sure.  Of course they do and I testified in the penalty phase of the trial.  It was much more difficult than I thought it would be reviewing all that, going over it, seeing the films of it. 

Obviously I’m not personally involved in this, but I would have preferred a different verdict but it does show that we have a legal system that we follow, that we respect it.  And it is exactly what is missing in the parts of the world or a lot of the parts of the world that are breeding terrorism. 

So maybe there is something good that come out of this in showing these people that at least showing the ones that have any kind of an open mind that we are a free society, a lawful society, a decent society, that we have respect for people’s rights and that we can have disagreements about whether the death penalty should be imposed on somebody like Moussaoui. 

I think it should have been.  I’ve been a lawyer more of my life than anything else.  And I respect a jury’s verdict.  I sat in front of this jury for about three or four hours.  They look like very careful and very decent people. I am sure they did the best they could. 

MATTHEWS:  Do you think this is going to harken back to the Boston massacre when once again back in the old days the American people chose to honor the restraints of laws rather than passions? 

GIULIANI:  You know, it does say something pretty remarkable about us.  Doesn’t it?  I mean, we probably haven’t had anything that emotionally affected as much as September 11 in a very, very long time.  And I could tell that these jurors were very emotionally affected by it as I was when we went through all of the events.

They heard a lot more testimony after me as compelling or more and yet they were able to come to what they regarded as a rational judgment.  It has to say something about what America is like.  And even though I am disappointed that they didn’t reach the death penalty result, I would have preferred that, I have great respect for what they did here.

MATTHEWS:  Where is the rationality in deciding, as they did unanimously, that this man, Zacarias Moussaoui, was responsible in some way for all the damage done to your city of New York and to the Pentagon on that horrible day of 9/11, but was not responsible for the deaths that occurred day?

GIULIANI:  I don’t know.

MATTHEWS:  How does that make sense? 

GIULIANI:  I don’t know.  I obviously knew my testimony in the case.  I don’t know the rest of the case.  I don’t know how they would come to that conclusion.  I mean, from what I knew of the case and what I read in the paper, it seemed to me he knew about this.  He could have prevented it in a very real sense. 

Had he given up the information that he knew then more than likely all of these people that died, including some that are very close friends of mine, would be alive, and therefore you hold them accountable for it. 

The law is complex.  There are lots of other testimonies.  This was this whole insanity thing that was played out.  I am sure the jurors reached the verdict they thought in conscience was the best one.

It is a complex set of feelings that I have.  I would have preferred to see the death penalty, but I kind of stand in awe of how our legal system works that it can come to a result like this.  It has to say something about us to the rest of the word. 

MATTHEWS:  Are you disappointed? 

GIULIANI:  Yes, I’m disappointed.  I believe that the death penalty was appropriate in this case, and it should have been applied.  But then at the same time, and maybe this is like the contradictory, complex feelings we all have about September 11 and everything that’s come from it, I have tremendous respect for our legal system. 

It should be amazing to the people in the other parts of the world that don’t have something like this: A group of 12 very decent Americans can come to the result that it just wasn’t appropriate to have a death penalty here, and that they’re free to do that, they’re protected in doing that, and even those of us who disagree with them respect them for coming to that conclusion. 

MATTHEWS:  Mr. Mayor, when you think about the crime that was committed against your city and against this country on 9/11/2001 and the people that you saw them jumping out of buildings from 100 floors, rather than face burning alive, they faced dying from a huge fall. 

When you think about that kind of victimhood and you are reacting to it now, and you think about a man who deliberately went out to take flying lessons, not so he could land a plane, but so that he could take a giant airplane and fly it into a building like the World Trade Center, is that the crime you think of, or is it the keeping of the secret between then and now?  What is the crime in your heart that this man committed? 

GIULIANI:  No, in this case, it’s keeping a secret and knowing as I know the legal system and the law enforcement system and how it works, had he disclosed it, then all those little pieces that maybe were out there that should have been put together would have been put together. 

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