Transcript for April 16

SISTER CHITTISTER: Well, what, what, what I’m concerned about is I, I talk about society now being at a crossover moment in time bigger than anything we’ve seen since the 16^th or the 13^th century, meaning we have a new science, and—as other speakers have said. It, it purports to concentrate on life issues. It’s bringing us to see life differently. We have a new globalism. We’re not comfortable; we’re not in our own bailiwicks anymore. Everybody’s in the same bailiwick with us, which means we have to look at, newly, what pluralism really means again.

We have to choose now with whether or not we want religion, that is this thing that binds us together, that is somehow or other genetically wired in us, that, that Aristotle talks about, that all the churches talk about. Or do we want denominationalism. What, what church, what religion do we want? Do we want the religion of the Crusades and the Inquisition and the witch burnings and segregation and slavery and the oppression of women and Puritanism that led to Prohibition, that didn’t last because it was somebody’s creed imposed on everybody else’s creed? Or do we want the religion of the peace movement that Jesus talked about, and the, the labor movement and the civil rights movement.

This new Puritanism is this notion that somehow or other, by failing to honor honorable traditions, that we’ll be a better, holier people. It didn’t work before, it’s not working now, it’s not going to—it’s not going to take America into the future.

MR. RUSSERT: Rabbi Lerner, you said this in your book: “The unholy alliance of the political Right and Religious Right threatens to destroy the America we love.”

But you also said this: “Most of us in the liberal world thought that the family crisis was made up by the Right - but it wasn’t made up. It was real. There was this real spiritual crisis, and the Right earned tremendous credibility by articulating the crisis.”

RABBI MICHAEL LERNER: Absolutely, and I give a lot of credit to the political right, and particularly the religious right for recognizing that crisis. There is a real spiritual crisis in the lives of most Americans, and in the book “The Left Hand of God: Taking Back Our Country From the Religious Right,” I interviewed 10,000 middle-income working families and learned in detail about the way in which spending day after day in a world of work in which the bottom line is to maximize money and power, and in which people learned that the common sense of the world of work, of our economy, is to look out for number one, nobody else is there to protect you, and hence to see other people from the standpoint of what they can do for you, how they can be of use, this utilitarian, instrumental way of looking at the world comes home into personal life where it undermines loving relationships and families.

Now, unfortunately, the political right has—and particularly the religious right—has often blamed the selfishness and materialism that, in fact, surrounds people and undermines loving connection, undermines families, makes—undermines friendships, they’ve blamed that very often on the demeaned others of the society. In Europe, the, the political right used to blame that on the Jews. In the United States, it’s now not only Native Americans and African-Americans that get blamed, but gays and lesbians, feminists and most recently, all secular people and all liberals are blamed as though we had introduced the selfishness and materialism into the society when, in fact, the—that selfishness is deeply rooted in the ethos of capitalism.

And in the—and see, what I, I think is critical is to understand that there is a religion that dominates the public sphere today, and it’s the religion that validates that which can be measured, and that which can be validated through sense datum. And everything else is seen as irrelevant or, literally, nonsense. And that dominant religion has—plays into an ethos of selfishness, because what can be counted is money, but what can’t be measured is love and kindness and generosity.

So what we’ve said is, in the, in the organization we’re putting together, the Network of Spiritual Progressives, that there needs to be a new bottom line in this society, and that means taking religion—all the religions of human, of human experience, not just Christianity. My grandparents certainly wouldn’t have come here if they’d thought this was a Christian country. They came here because they thought they were going to be protected from being—having a religion imposed on them. But all, but all the religious and spiritual traditions of the human race have a common wisdom that can be applied as a counter to this selfishness and materialism that dominates in the old bottom line. We need a new bottom line of love and caring and kindness and generosity.

MR. RUSSERT: Pastor Osteen at Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, 42,000 people come every Sunday to worship with you. You said this last summer:

“I’ve never been political. I have thoughts. I don’t think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don’t think abortion is the best. I think there [is] a better way to live your life. But I’m not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.”

Every—are there any standards that people have to adhere to in order to come worship in your church?

PASTOR JOEL OSTEEN: No, Tim, there’s really not. We love this place being open. I, I think that’s what the, the gospel’s all about. I mean, Jesus was a friend of sinners and, you know, I don’t believe in going around condemning people and telling them all what they’re doing wrong. Obviously, you know, we try to present the truth to them and present the biblical ways that we see it, but no, Jesus didn’t come and condemn people and so I think that, you know, when you show love, when you open your heart, it seems like that’s where people respond. So that’s what our message is, has been about all these years.

MR. RUSSERT: Father Neuhaus, our—every—are all people welcome to the Catholic Church even if they may have views that differ from the hierarchy?

REV. NEUHAUS: Oh my goodness, yes. The only qualification is that you’re a sinner and know that you’re in need of a savior and, you know, this is Easter Sunday so we should mention that the occasion is the celebration of the victory of our Lord Jesus Christ over sin and death. The Catholic Church is—James—“Finnegan’s Wake”...

Offscreen Voice: James Joyce.

RABBI LERNER: James Joyce.

REV. NEUHAUS: James Joyce was fond of saying that—and in my little book, “Catholic Matters,” I have a defense of the literary source in this because it’s controverted among some scholars—but James Joyce said the Catholic Church is “here comes everybody.”

SISTER CHITTISTER: Mm-hmm.

REV. NEUHAUS: “Here comes everybody.” Otherwise known as a holy mother church, and a very promiscuous mother indeed, who reaches out to everybody. And as our Lord said, you know, “He came not to be served, but to serve.” And the church is the embodiment of Christ, the body of Christ. Now at that same time, we are sinners who are forgiven sinners and called to be saints. And so there is a universal call to holiness and entering in to the church is not simply to be entertained and spiritually uplifted and to find little, you know, spiritual tricks that make you feel good. It is a call to follow Jesus, and that is a most demanding and challenging call. As he said to the disciples, “Take up your cross and follow me. In this people will know that you love me, that you obey my commandments. There is not greater love than this, than to lay down your life.”

MORE FROM MEET THE PRESS

Meet the Press Section Front

Sunday's Meet the Press guest list June 28: Axelrod, Romney, Graham, roundtable June 21: Netanyahu, Nunn, Thompson, Easton, Todd June 14: Biden, Murphy, Scarborough May 31: Leahy, Sessions, Owens, Schmidt, Mulcahy, roundtable May 24: Durbin, Gingrich, political roundtable May 17: Kaine, Steele, Haass, Noonan, Brownstein May 10: Karzai, Zardari, Coll, Mitchell May 3: Sebelius, Napolitano, Besser, Specter, Scarborough, Gillespie April 26: Gibbs, King Abdullah, Goodwin, Meacham Meet the Press Section Front   Add Meet the Press headlines to your news reader: