begins with shock and awe. Exactly three years later, millions have voted in free elections and a parliament have been seated. But 2,300 Americans have been killed, more than 17,000 wounded and injured. The war is costing $150 million dollars a day and there are still 130,000 Americans on the ground. Where do we go from here? With us: the top American commander in Iraq, General George Casey.

Then, an outspoken critic of the war.

(Videotape):

REP. JOHN MURTHA, (D-Pa.): This is flawed policy wrapped in illusion.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Joining us, Congressman John Murtha, Democrat from Pennsylvania.

But first, on Thursday, north of Baghdad, the military launched an air assault called Operation Swarmer, as seen here in this Department of Defense video. With us, the senior U.S. commander there in Iraq, General George Casey.

General, good morning and welcome. What can you tell us about Operation Swarmer?

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GEN. GEORGE CASEY: Well, good morning, Tim. Operation Swarmer is one of a series of ongoing operations that we have to keep the pressure on al-Qaida and to keep foreign fighters and Iraqis that are supporting them from forming safe havens in lesser inhabited areas of Iraq. This operation was put together with the Iraqi security forces; it continues to this day. They’ve had pretty good success there in terms of weapons caches that they’ve found and people that they’ve, they’ve detained. So again, one of a continuing series of operations that we will continue to run here to keep the pressure on al-Qaida.

MR. RUSSERT: Time magazine is running an article written by a journalist over there in Iraq, and the headline is: “How operation Swarmer Fizzled. Not a shot was fired, or a leader nabbed, in a major offensive that failed to live up to its advance billing.” Is that an accurate appraisal?

GEN. CASEY: I haven’t seen the article, Tim. I don’t think it’s an accurate appraisal. They actually have picked up one or two of the high-value folks that they were, that they were looking for. But again, this will—this operation here will have a very disruptive effect on the terrorist and insurgent groups that were attempting to use that area there as a safe haven and base area from which to plan and operate.

MR. RUSSERT: Will there be any more major combat operations in Iraq?

GEN. CASEY: It’s hard to say, Tim. And I take by “major combat operations,” you’re talking along the lines that we saw in Fallujah, for example. And I will tell you that we really haven’t seen anything the size or scope of Fallujah since then. Probably the next closest operation was the operation that we conducted up in, up in Tal Afar here in September. So it really depends on where the enemy goes and whether they mass to meet us. And I think what we’ve seen is after their sound defeat by the coalition forces in Fallujah, they’ve learned that they cannot gather together in large groupings or they pay the consequences.

MR. RUSSERT: I think what’s of concern to the American people is that we see what happened in Fallujah, we watch Operation Swarmer, and people remember that almost three years ago, the president assured the nation that all major combat operations in Iraq were—have ended.

(Videotape, May 1, 2003):

PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH: My fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: That’s just not the case, is it?

GEN. CASEY: Tim, I, I wouldn’t categorize Swarmer as a major combat operation. It was an operation to go out into a almost uninhabited area. So it was certainly nothing like the operation in Fallujah. I think, frankly, it got a little bit more hype than it really deserved because of the use of the helicopters to get the Iraqi and the coalition forces there. It might have looked a little more formidable than it actually was.

MR. RUSSERT: But you do not rule out major combat operations in the future?

GEN. CASEY: Tim, we—the enemy has a vote here, and we will take the fight—we and the Iraqi security forces—will continue to take the fight to the enemy wherever he goes. And if he is dumb enough to mass again like he, like he did in Fallujah, then, you know, he’ll have to bear the consequences.

MR. RUSSERT: People are quite interested in getting a reality check of what is happening on the ground in Iraq. Do you believe that there has been positive progress with the political process, including the Sunnis, and has there been positive progress in training the Iraqi troops?

GEN. CASEY: Tim, my answer to both those questions is yes. And I think people need to, to put this in a little bit more perspective and not think so much about what they’ve seen on television over the last three weeks, and think about what’s been going on here over the last three years. When I’ve been thinking about this, you know, three years ago, Saddam Hussein was still in charge of Iraq. Today, he’s on trial and he will be held accountable by the Iraqi people and the leaders of the new Iraq are sitting down and meeting and discussing how they’re going to institute a form of government that will respect the human rights and all the rights of all the different ethnic and sectarian groups here in Iraq. And they have gone through three national polls in a year and in each one, the levels of participation increased, the levels of violence decreased, and each time the terrorists and the foreign fighters—the same groups that are trying to foment sectarian strife right now—failed to stop the election, the referendum and the, and the election in December.

Now to your question on the Iraqi security forces. We, we continue to make great progress with the Iraqi security forces. I think General Chiarelli—just came back, he was gone for a little less than a year—and he said, he remarked the other day that when he left, there was one Iraqi brigade and two Iraqi battalions that were actually in charge of areas of Iraq and in the lead. Today, Tim, there are two Iraqi divisions, 13 Iraqi brigades and almost 60 Iraqi army and special police battalions that are in charge, in the lead, occupying in battle space and conducting counterinsurgency operations across Iraq. And I will tell you that their performance in this period after the, the bombing of the Samarra Mosque in, on the 22^nd, has been generally very good. Not uniformly good, we did have some problems with the police and in their relationships with the militia, but it was the Iraqi military and the police that were the dominant force, forces on the ground here in the—supported by the coalition in the aftermath of this Samarra bombing. So, yes we’re making good political progress and yes, we continue to make good progress with the Iraqi security forces.

MR. RUSSERT: That being the case, general, I want to take you back to something you said almost exactly a year ago. “By this time next year - you know, you base all of your planning on assumptions. Assuming that the political process continues to go positively, and the Sunni are included in the political process, and the Iraqi army continues to progress and develop as we think it will, we should be able to take some fairly substantial reductions in the size of our forces.” So you said the process is positive, the troop development is positive. Has been, this is a year ago, and you said therefore we could reduce our troop levels.

GEN. CASEY: Right.

MR. RUSSERT: That has not happened. So what is the problem?

GEN. CASEY: It has happened, Tim. We—right after—right before Christmas we off-ramped two brigades. We did not, we chose not to bring two additional brigades into Iraq, and our, our forces are 7,000 to 10,000 less as a result of that. And so we have started that process. And that process is a process that—again, go back to your base assumptions, as long as those two things continue to hold—that process is going to continue, I expect through 2006 and into 2007. So the process has begun.

CONTINUED

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