MR. TIM RUSSERT: Our issues this Sunday—with ethical charges swirling, Congressman Tom DeLay will not return as House majority leader. Washington lobbyists and fund-raiser Jack Abramoff pleads guilty to fraud, conspiracy and tax evasion. And the hearings for Supreme Court nominee Samuel Alito begin on Monday.

With us, two key members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Republican John Cornyn of Texas, Democrat Chuck Schumer of New York. Then a debate over abortion rights and the role of women in society. With us, author of “With Liberty and Justice For All,” Kate Michelman. Author of “Women Who Make The World Worse,” Kate O’Beirne. The two Kates square off. Then The New York Times reporter who broke the story of the president ordering domestic wiretapping without court approval has a new book “State Of War: A Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration,” with us, James Risen.

But first under pressure from fellow Republicans, Tom DeLay announced yesterday he would not seek to regain his House majority leader post.

(Videotape, January 7, 2006):

REP. TOM DeLAY, (R-TX): Earlier today, I asked Speaker Hastert to convene the House Republican conference as soon as possible for the purpose of electing a new majority leader.

The job of majority leader is too important to be hamstrung by personal distractions.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Cornyn, why did your fellow Texan make that decision?

SEN. JOHN CORNYN, (R-TX): Well, I think Mr. DeLay had hoped to have the criminal charges made against him resolved by a quick trial, but that did not appear to be possible. So out of respect for the House and for the nation, he’s chose to put their interests ahead of his own, and I respect him for that.

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MR. RUSSERT: Do you think his name being linked with Jack Abramoff who pleaded guilty to multiple felonies last week also was a reason?

SEN. CORNYN: It’s not clear exactly how that all is going to play out, but perhaps that played a part in his decision. But I think he made the right decision.

MR. RUSSERT: How much will the issue of corruption play in the November ’06 congressional elections?

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER, (D-NY): Yeah, I think, Tim, it’s going to play a great deal, both in itself. After all, when the Republican Party took power in 1994, it was a party of change, and the Democrats were regarded as the party of the status quo and involved in all these various little scandals. And now it seems to have flipped.

Corruption matters in two ways. Obviously, it’s bad in itself, but it also indicates a status quo situation, that a party of change is there too long, becomes too enmeshed in the Washington power structure. And the public, America, Tim, says America’s headed in the wrong direction, and we, Democrats, stand for change not only in trying to clean up this lobbying and corruption but on the meat and potatoes issues like energy costs and prescription drugs and health care. And I think they’re going to be tied together and it’s going to be a good Democratic year in 2006 at least if things continue as they are now.

MR. RUSSERT: Do you think Tom DeLay will run for re-election to his House seat?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, you’d have to ask him that, but if he does, he becomes part of a symbol of too much entrenched power and need for checks and balances and need for change.

MR. RUSSERT: Would it be better for the Republican Party if Tom DeLay did not seek re-election?

SEN. CORNYN: I think, you know, what would be best if we allow the process to run its course, the charges against him—there’s a lot of informed judgment that he actually will be acquitted of those charges, but I know that Senator Schumer and his party would like to claim that this is somehow systemic, but the truth is right now all we know is that individuals, like Mr. Abramoff, had plead guilty. Others are standing on their right a presumption of innocence and insisting on a trial, and we’ll find out how the chips fall.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Harry Reid, the leader of the Democrats in the Senate, received $60,000 from Jack Abramoff, says he won’t give it back. Why not?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, he hasn’t received any money from Jack Abramoff. In fact, I talked to Harry Reid.

MR. RUSSERT: Well, tribal clients. I mean...

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, but the tribal clients are sometimes different. I mean, lots of senators, Democrat and Republican in the West, have relationships—particularly in the West, have relationships with the Indian tribes. And let me say this: The issue here is not simply receiving contributions. The issue is whether services were rendered in return. That’s what the Justice Department is mentioning. The Justice Department has mentioned the names of a group of people—John is certainly right; it’s not everybody, but every single person they mentioned was a Republican. Harry Reid’s name was not mentioned. He’s a person of integrity and I don’t think the two are at all the same.

MR. RUSSERT: But wouldn’t it better for the Democrats for Senator Reid to return that money, the way other Democrats have, just to avoid any sense of taint?

SEN. SCHUMER: Well, let me say, when these things happen—and you’ve been around Washington a long time, Tim—you know, there’s all sorts of allegations bandied about, many of them false and many of them put out by political opponents, and some people do return the money because they feel, “Oh, gee, I don’t want to deal with all those false allegations.” Others say, “I’ve done nothing wrong, I’m not going to.” That’s the type of person Harry Reid is. He’s done nothing wrong. He’s a person of integrity. In fact, next week, he’s going to be unveiling a whole plan to clear up the corruption, particularly with lobbyists in Washington. He’s on the right side. He’s on the force for change. And if the Republican leadership would allow his bill or a bill of their choosing like it to come to the floor, I think we could do a lot to eliminate these kinds of problems.

MR. RUSSERT: Senator Cornyn, your name surfaced as receiving $1,000 from associates of Jack Abramoff. And Ralph Reed, an associate of Mr. Abramoff, was quoted as saying that he helped “choreograph” a response for you when you were attorney general towards a tribal problem. Will you give that money back?

SEN. CORNYN: Tim, it was a legal contribution. I don’t plan on giving it back, which is—you know, to listen to Chuck and to try to have it both ways and say this is a partisan issue—you know, Jack Abramoff and the people, his clients, made bipartisan contributions and through—as long as they’re legal and appropriately reported, I don’t see any reason to give them back. On the Reed e-mail—and this is not Harry Reid, but...

SEN. SCHUMER: R-E-E-D of the—yeah.

MR. RUSSERT: Ralph Reed, formerly of the Christian Coalition.

SEN. CORNYN: Exactly. Those e-mails came out three years after I, as attorney general of Texas, filed an injunction to enforce Texas law against casino gambling. We prevailed because the law was in our favor, and then after the fact, apparently, there were these e-mails I had no knowledge of where Reed and Abramoff were somehow claiming credit and then bilking their Indian clients for millions of dollars, apparently. And I certainly disapprove of that, did not know anything about it.

MR. RUSSERT: Let me turn to the nomination of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. The hearings begin tomorrow. Senator Schumer, back in 2001 you wrote a letter to President Bush and you said this: “The ABA evaluation has been the gold standard by which judicial candidates are judged...”

Gold standard.

SEN. SCHUMER: Yes.

MR. RUSSERT: And now we have this from the ABA: “Samuel A. Alito Jr. (nominated 11/10/05), to be an associate justice to the U.S. Supreme Court. Rating: ‘Well qualified’ by unanimous vote of the standing committee” of the ABA. It’s the gold standard. He’s rated well qualified. Game, set, match.

SEN. SCHUMER: Not quite, Tim. Don’t push it. Not that fast. Let me say this: The bar association is the gold standard for the two things they measure, competence—in other words, their qualifications—and their judicial temperament. Judge Alito certainly has a judicial temperament. He went to I think it is Princeton—Right? -- Yale Law School. Very bright man. That’s all the bar association judges. The most important qualification for a judge—and I made this argument in 2001 as well—and that is their judicial philosophy. They have enormous power in this lifetime appointment to be a Supreme Court justice. How are they going to use it? Are they going to follow the law or are they going to impose their views on the American people in a very ideological way? And judges at the extreme far right, far left, tend to do that.

The big outstanding question about Judge Alito is the third question. So no one disputes his legal education, the experience he’s had. It’s been very good. No one disputes that he has judicial temperament. There’s a great deal of question on his judicial philosophy. He has said some very, very, very extreme things throughout his career, both when he worked for Ronald Reagan and as a judge.

MR. RUSSERT: But here’s the situation, as many people see it. When Ruth Bader Ginsburg was put forward by Bill Clinton, she had been general counsel for the ACLU. Steven Breyer has worked for Ted Kennedy, and yet they were overwhelmingly confirmed because they had competence and temperament, as you say.

SEN. SCHUMER: Right.

CONTINUED

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