Transcript for December 18

MR. RUSSERT:  So you regret having made that law?

SEN. LEVIN:  No. I regret — the only regret I have is that the Republicans right now refuse to extend the Patriot Act for three months so that we can keep to the Senate provisions which we now adopted by unanimous vote. There were provisions in the original Patriot Act which went too far and we wrote in a sunset provision so we could change them. The Senate unanimously voted to change some provisions in the Patriot Act. The House-Senate conference went backward in that regard. We want three months to see if we can't make the provisions stick that the Senate recently unanimously voted for.

MR. RUSSERT:  You've been very critical of the president. And Senator Joe Lieberman, a fellow Democrat, said this:  "It's time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be Commander-in-Chief for three more critical years, and that in matters of war we undermine presidential credibility at our nation's peril."

SEN. LEVIN:  No, I think what would be very dangerous for us would not be to change course in Iraq. And those of us and some bipartisan group that for instance adopted the resolution you referred to that said that the president needs to inform the Iraqis that they have got to come together politically, make the tough political decisions to change this constitution which has basically left out one of the three major groups. And when you asked the secretary of state a very direct question whether or not we will tell — inform the Iraqis that they need to amend this constitution which did not unify the nation. According to our military leaders this constitution that now exists does not create a national compact, it is a divisive document, it needs to be changed. But when you asked the secretary of state whether she or we would inform the Iraqis that they need to make changes in the constitution in order to include all of the groups so that they could come together politically to defeat the insurgency, she ducked the question. She simply said there's a process in place. That's not good enough.

Seventy-nine of us bipartisan group of senators said that's not good enough. This process has got to be used, not just, "There's a process out there which could be used."  We've got to tell the Iraqis, you must put your political house in order. You've got to make the changes in the constitution.

MR. RUSSERT:  What changes?

SEN. LEVIN:  They've got to make a — they've got to share power. They've got to share oil resources. They cannot allow the regions, for instance, to control their own internal security. That will lead to militias. They're going to have to write their own constitution. We can't write it for them. But those are the types of changes which are going to be required if they're going to bring the Sunni Arab community into that national compact. They're going to need to write it, but for us to simply say, "Folks, your constitution was a bold — is a bold constitution" — that's what the president said in his speech — "It's a bold constitution which protects minority rights" — what kind of a mixed message is that?

They've got to change that constitution. Our military leaders have said they've got to win this thing politically. They can't win it militarily. They've got to unify in order to beat the insurgency. And that's what we've got to tell them they need to do. That's not what you heard here from the secretary of state, even though you asked her twice whether or not we will tell the Iraqis that they need to change the constitution to put their political house in order.

MR. RUSSERT:  Will there be enough Iraqi soldiers capably trained by the end of 2006 for us to make significant withdrawals of U.S. troops?

SEN. LEVIN:  Only if — only if — the political coming together is achieved in the next four months in rewriting the constitution. Iraqis have given themselves a four-month period to revise this constitution. If they come together politically and bring the Sunni Arab community into it, because that's where most of the fuel for the insurgency comes from, the Sunni Arab community--if they come together politically and resolve those differences, then I believe they've got a chance to defeat the insurgency and the terrorists that come from outside who are the suicide bombers. If they don't come together politically, our military leaders say they will not win this thing militarily.

MR. RUSSERT:  What are the chances they'll come together politically?

SEN. LEVIN:  Only if we put pressure on them. Only if we tell them they need to do that. Only if we tell them, "Hey, we're not here for some unlimited period of time. We don't have an open-ended commitment here, the way the president says."  He's got to — we've got to change course. We've got to tell the Iraqis they need to come together politically, not that they have a possibility to come together politically, not that they have a bold constitution when they don't, when they have a divisive constitution. We've got to tell them they need to come together politically or we're going to have to reconsider our presence in Iraq. That's the club, that's the leverage which we must exercise.

MR. RUSSERT:  And it could then become a haven for terrorists.

SEN. LEVIN:  It — either way. Right now it's a haven for terrorists. We've got to change the course. The current course is not a course which is going to lead to success.

MR. RUSSERT:  Senator Carl Levin, we thank you for joining us. Happy Hanukkah.

SEN. LEVIN:  Same to you.

MR. RUSSERT:  Coming next, our political roundtable on the Bush presidency, Iraq and the U.S. Congress. We're joined by John Harwood of The Wall Street Journal and, from PBS' "Washington Week," Gwen Ifill.

Then our MEET THE PRESS Minute remembers a longtime United States senator from Wisconsin, William Proxmire, coming up here on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. RUSSERT:  And we are back. John Harwood, Gwen Ifill, welcome, both.

MS. GWEN IFILL:  Thank you.

MR. RUSSERT:  What a debate here in Washington and around the country about eavesdropping on American citizens. Gwen Ifill, the great Jim Lehrer sat down with President Bush on Friday, and the president wouldn't even acknowledge that such a program existed. He said, "I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it. I'm not going to talk about it."  The next morning, the president goes on live radio and talks about it, taking the offensive, saying, "We had to do it."

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