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Transcript for December 18
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MR. RUSSERT: Lyndon Johnson never wanted the federal budget to go above $100 billion. It was always 99 point— my sense is psychologically it'll be below $100 in order for Republicans to say, "You see? We're making progress."
Let's talk about the president's favorable-unfavorable approval ratings if you will. Here's George W. Bush — approve, 39; disapprove, 55. Broken down by party, this is quite striking, 8 percent approval of Democrats, 88 percent disapprove. Independents, 1:3 approve; 58 disapprove. The Republican base is still strong, 76 to 17. Now, look at Congress. Here's approval of Congress: 25 percent, Gwen Ifill.
MS. IFILL: And here's what it boils down to which is what's difficult for the president which is the credibility John is talking about is really significant at this time. Most people don't actually trust, believe, support you, or most Democrats or most Independents, then you're in this position where you have to make the argument, for instance, for this domestic spying issue that says, "Trust me. I want to expand presidential power and that's important. So you should trust me."
Well, it turns out that many, many Americans don't necessarily trust him to do the right thing on Iraq especially and they're waiting to hear him talk about--What?--health care is still the number two issue when you ask people about major issues above terrorism, then you begin to have a real uphill claw to try to make the point that you should trust what I'm saying, that I'm interpreting the law, as Condoleezza Rice said, "I'm no lawyer," but he wants to make the case that he's interpreting the law correctly and has your best interest at heart, but yet people have to believe you in order for that to stick.
MR. HARWOOD: And, Tim, look at what we're seeing on Capitol Hill as a result of numbers like that and the president's weakness, as Gwen mentioned. We're really looking at a situation that's every man, every woman for him or herself. The discipline is breaking down and you've got members standing up on Alaskan oil drilling, on either wanting to cut entitlement programs or not wanting to cut them so much, on wanting to cut dividend and capital gains taxes, extend those Bush priorities or not do it. The Republican discipline that has sustained this administration for the early part of his presidency is really under challenge and you have to also nod to the fact that Tom DeLay's not there anymore. He was the bad cop who was making things happen.
MR. RUSSERT: And his trial is going to go on for some time via court ruling again yesterday. It seems it's extended out.
Real quickly on immigration. We polled on this and this is quite interesting. Immigration strengthens the U.S., 37; weakens, 51. Immigration too open? Fifty-seven say yes, too open; too close, 10. And this controversial allowed the foreign workers temporary-worker status--favor, 46 to 49. How big of an issue is immigration going to be?
MR. HARWOOD: It's a huge issue. The American public is very concerned about that and we saw that in the House sort of turning to the immigration issue and other priorities have fallen by the wayside, Social Security. Tax reform looks like it's been set aside by both the White House and by members of Congress for the near term. Immigration is a place they think they can get healthy. The question is: You can pass a border security bill--as the House has done--but can you pass the other part of the president's priorities, that is to legalize in some way with a guest worker program those people already here? That's more difficult to do politically and that's going to be a juggling act that they play out all year long next year.
MR. RUSSERT: The president could have some problem with his conservative base on immigration, Gwen Ifill.
MS. IFILL: Well, he does have a problem with it, but we haven't yet seen it meet the test in an actual election contest. In California, the guy who was head of the Minutemen ran for office. He didn't win. He ran on strictly this issue. And so we're kind of waiting to see whether peoples' knee-jerk reactions actually translate into votes.
MR. RUSSERT: To be continued. Gwen Ifill, John Harwood.
Coming next, our MEET THE PRESS Minute from 46 years ago. Senator William Proxmire challenges the leadership style of a fellow Democrat, the then Senate Majority Leader--Who else? — Lyndon Baines Johnson.
We'll be right back.
(Announcements)
MR. RUSSERT: And we are back.
Senator William Proxmire died last week at the age of 90. He was first elected to the Senate in 1957, replacing Senator Joseph McCarthy. He quickly carved out an image as a crusader against wasteful spending, creating the Golden Fleece Awards.
(Videotape):
SEN. WILLIAM PROXMIRE, (D-WI): That was so silly, so outrageous, that I gave that a fleece.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: He often spoke up and challenged the leadership of his own party as he did right here in 1959.
(Videotape, March 1, 1959):
MR. NED BROOKS (Moderator): Welcome once again to MEET THE PRESS. Our guest is Senator William Proxmire, Democrat of Wisconsin. He became a center of controversy a few days ago with a surprise attack on what he called one-man rule of the Senate. He charged that the Democrats have surrendered their rights and their powers to party leader Lyndon Johnson of Texas. He said party conferences, for all practical purposes, have been abolished and the typical Democratic senator no longer has any voice in policies or programs.
MR. JACK BELL (Associate Press): Senator, as I parse your complaint, the heart of it is that you as a senator from Wisconsin don't have anything to say about the kind of bills that are going to be brought up in the Senate. Is that essentially it?
SEN. PROXMIRE: Well, Mr. Bell, I think that I have little to say and I think that that position is shared by the vast majority of my colleagues.
MR. BELL: Well, now is it your contention that Lyndon Johnson himself personally decides what legislation is going to be brought up in the Senate?
SEN. PROXMIRE: It's my contention that he makes the principal decision.
MS. SARAH McCLENDON (San Antonio Light): Has he called you from time to time to ask your advice on a bill?
SEN. PROXMIRE: I've come into Senator Johnson's office and it's a very interesting experience, one of the most exciting, interesting experiences I've had. It's usually a one-way conversation, regardless of who the personnel is, no matter how vigorous they are or how articulate they are or how well- informed they are on the measure. It's usually Lyndon Johnson talking and this is at the beginning of the meeting and at the end of the meeting.
(End videotape)
MR. RUSSERT: By the way, back then there were 65 Democrats in the U.S. Senate. Today there are only 45. Proxmire retired from the Senate in 1989. In his last re-election bid he spent all of $145.10. Now, that is frugal.
William Proxmire, he and his family are in our thoughts and prayers.
(Announcements)
MR. RUSSERT: On NBC tonight, watch a special NBC News report. Tom Brokaw reports "To War and Back," a special look at what happens when young men go to war, lose friends, get hurt and then come home. That's tonight at 8 p.m. Eastern right here on NBC. That'll be followed by live NBC News coverage of the president's address to the nation, anchored by Brian Williams, at 9 p.m.
Don't forget, you can watch the entire MEET THE PRESS program whenever, wherever you want. Our MEET THE PRESS Webcast is posted each Sunday at 1 p.m. Eastern on our Web site, mtp.msnbc.com.
That's all for today. We'll be back next week. If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS. Sorry about those Bills, but how about those Sabers?
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