President Bush on Iraq, Katrina, the economy

Brian Williams Anchor & “Nightly News” managing editor • Profile

Next, it was on to Philadelphia. For the President, that meant the short flight from Marine One to Andrews Air Force Base in suburban Maryland, then onto Air Force One. After landing in Philadelphia, the President traveled by motorcade to a downtown hotel, and another in his recent series of speeches on the war in Iraq, this one to the World Affairs Council. After the speech, he sat down with us to talk about the war in Iraq.

Brian Williams: Well, I know this is number one on the list of things to do, Mr. President.

President George W. Bush: No, I'm glad to do it, thank you.

Williams: Let's start off with a fun topic. And then we'll get into the topic you were just addressing. Let's talk about the news media.

Once and for all — and I know you've had some fun with members of the press on this subject — how much television news do you watch? How much do you read the morning papers, news magazines? How much do you see in an average week?

President Bush: I don'I see a lot of the news. Every morning I look at the newspaper. I can't say I've read every single article in the newspaper. But I definitely know what's in the news. Occasionally, I watch television. t want to hurt your feelings, but it's occasionally. I'm working at that point, as are you. But I'm very aware of what's in the news. I'm aware because I see clips. I see summaries. I have people on my staff that walk in every morning and say, "This is what's — this is how I see it. This is what's brewing today," on both the domestic and international side. Frankly, it is probably part of my own fault for needling people, but it's a myth to think I don't know what's going on. And it's a myth to think that I'm not aware that there is opinions that don't agree with mine. Because I'm fully aware of that.

Williams: But you, yourself, said to a reporter, I think it was Brit Hume, that you'd prefer to get the news orally from your aids?

President Bush: Well, that's one way to look at it. I mean, I read the newspaper. I mean, I can tell you what the headlines are. I must confess, if I think the story is, like, not a fair appraisal, I'll move on. But I know what the story's about.

Williams: OK, as we drove up to the hotel in Philadelphia today, there were protesters outside. And they were yelling shame. Do you see them and hear them from your limousine?

President Bush: Sure.

Williams: Does it matter to you? Does it register?

President Bush: I think after awhile you kind of get used to it. It's part of the job. It is — you know, it's — part of living in a democracy. They're frankly smaller than they used to be, but that doesn't mean there's not intensity out there. I've made some very difficult positions. I fully understand people not liking war. I fully understand people wanting, you know, feeling that, you know, that I'm making progress. I mean, I can see that. And, on the other hand, I know we're making progress. We're winning. And it's my job to continue to try to reassure them that we are winning and the stakes are worth it. But yes, I'm fully aware of the discontent and the protests.

Williams: We believe this is the first time in a long time we've heard you use the number of Iraqi civilian dead. It's one of the estimates out there. And Ambassador Bremer's name came up. Why was that? Any reason behind that?

President Bush: No, just — I mean, it was a factual point. What I was trying to say — or what I did say — was that there was a vacuum. We moved into it with the CPA. My point is we're constantly readjusting our strategy and the tactic — not the strategy, the strategy is clear — but the tactics to achieve a free Iraq. And that Bremer was the head of the CPA. And it was factual. So, people will remember.

Williams: A lot of people have seen in this series of speeches you're giving on Iraq, a movement in your position. They call it an acknowledgement that perhaps the mission has not gone as it was originally planned — three points: That the U.S. would be welcomed as liberators, that General Shinsecki, when he said this would take hundreds of thousands of troops in his farewell speech, might have been right. And third, that it wasn't a self-sustaining war in terms of the oil revenue. Do you concede those three points might not have gone as planned?

President Bush: Review them with me again.

Williams: Number one — that we'd be welcomed as liberators?

President Bush: I think we are welcomed. But it was not a peaceful welcome. There were some in society, rejectionists and the Saddamists and the terrorists that have moved in to stir them up that said, "We're going to prevent a democracy from emerging." But I think a lot of people are glad, I know a lot of people are glad we're there. And they're glad we're helping them train their troops so they can take the fight.

Williams: Was the force in Iraq, looking back, too small for the job?

President Bush: I remember the debate at the time. I remember John McCain, for example, saying, "You needed more troops." But I relied upon the judgment of General Tommy Franks. I felt then and I felt now that we had the troop levels that we needed. History will make that determination.

Williams: And how about the oil revenues?

President Bush: You mean on the Iraqi side?

Williams: Yes.

President Bush: Yes, they're not as great as we thought they'd be. Yet they're substantial. And the Iraqis are beginning to develop a budget, with the help of the IMF, that's a sustaining budget.

Williams: Do you believe this war was an elective on your part? Or did this have to come out of 9/11?

President Bush: Hmm, interesting question. Well, first of all, troops don't move unless I give the order. So, from that sense it was elective. I mean, I could have said, "No, we'll try to, you know, hope for the best with Saddam Hussein."

Remember at the time we didn't know the facts on the ground. We — everybody thought the guy had weapons of mass destruction. Everybody knew that he'd used weapons of mass destruction and had provided safe haven for terrorists. I mean, those were facts. Whether or not it had to happen is — it didn't have to happen since a human being made the decision. Whether or not it needed to happen, I'm still convinced it needed to happen.

Williams: You said again today if you had to do it all over again you'd do...

President Bush: I would. Remember what Dolpher found, the inspectors that went in there. They came back and said, "No, we didn't find the weapons that we all thought would be there. But we did know that he had the capacity to reconstitute a weapons program." And that he was a dangerous man. It would be even more dangerous had he survived, you know, yet another U.N. resolution.

Williams: One of the Sunday commentators who you like to watch so much said that you and your administration were in the process of defining victory down, true or false?

President Bush: You know, I don't think so. I think that's an unfair characterization. We believe that Iraq will be a democracy and know that Iraq as a democracy will be a strong ally in the war on terror. One of the things that we will do is make sure that Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorist plotting. That's been pretty much the stated objective all along.

Williams: Can we talk about torture for a moment? The United States right now is locked in talks. And they're going on in Washington. Why can't the United States be definitively against torture, the current definition they're talking about?

President Bush: Yeah, we will be. We are and we will be at home and abroad. And we're working through this issue with members of the House and the Senate. There's a reconciliation process going, or a, you know, coming together of minds, I guess is the best way to put it. And we want to see it happened. And we're working with both Senator McCain and Congressman Duncan Hunter.

Williams: Can you meet John McCain at his definition?

President Bush: Yes, I'm confident we can. On the other hand, we want to make sure that we're in a position to be able to interrogate without torture. These are people that still want to hurt us, Brian. And the American people expect us to do that which we can do within international law and our own declaration of supporting the premises of international law is what I really meant to say -- to protect us. I mean, if they know something, we need to know it. And we think we can find it without torturing people.

Williams: There is talk in Washington, as you may know, that because of acts that may have already taken place, you need to retain the power to pardon. Because certain interrogations may have violated the wording that may be agreed to, already, preexisting, things that have happened in the past. Can you confirm or deny that?

President Bush: In other words, your question is, will I have the power to pardon?

Williams: Right, but in the pursuit of the war on terror, that perhaps U.S. agents or agents acting in the name of the United States have violated the definition of torture.

President Bush: People who've violated the definition of torture will be held to account if that's what you're asking. Now, what we want to make sure of is that a person will be able to understand the rules, that's all, that there be clarity of the rules. Because we've got to be able to interrogate. I mean, I'm confident the American people expect us to do that without torturing. You would. If you found somebody that had information about an attack on America, you'd want to know as best as we can to find out what the facts are. And we have a duty and a responsibility to do that.

Williams: Have you ever entertained the thought, Mr. President, that Iraq's natural state may be three separate pieces, three separate nations?

President Bush: No, I haven't. I think — I know it will be united based upon, you know, kind of universal principles, the ones I outlined in the speech, freedom to worship, rule of law, private property, marketplace, all bound by a constitution which the Iraqis approved, and which the Iraqis will improve upon. And, you know, we improved on our own Constitution. In other words, it's a living document. And no, that would be a disaster, by the way, if it were three separate nations.

Williams: What effect did John Murtha's statement on this war have on you?

President Bush: On me?

Williams: Yes.

President Bush: Well, John Murtha's a fine guy. And he's, you know, he served our nation admirably. I just think he's wrong. I think the idea of having a, you know, a timetable for withdrawal, does three things that would be bad.

One, it emboldens the enemy. That's precisely what they want. They want us to withdraw. And — and oh, by the way, here, we're telling them when and how. And they will adjust accordingly.

Secondly, it sends a bad message to the Iraqis. We've said to the Iraqis, "We'll help train you. We'll stand with you. And we'll get you on your feet so you can take the fight to the enemy." And if our commanders on the ground say we're not ready to, you know, stand down — a timetable would dispirit the Iraqis.

Finally, it'll dispirit our troops. Because our troops know the mission hasn't been completed. But strategy and my plans are these. I will listen to the commanders. I understand war is objective-based, not timetable-based. And we will complete this mission for the good of the country.

Williams: In a publication out today, Congressman Murtha was interviewed. And he complains that — he compares it to his last frame of reference, your father's administration. He says your Dad used to come down to the House gymnasium once a week and talk to members. And that your father's administration consulted more with members like him. Will there be more of that in your second term?

President Bush: I have consulted with members of both parties throughout my presidency. And I can remember the run up to the Iraqi war which was the most important decision point and talking about the resolution. And we have members — I stood with members of both parties in the Rose Garden as we collectively decided that this was worth the effort of the United States. And — no, I continually reach out to members of Congress.

Williams: Let's talk about the economy, a subject I know you're anxious to talk about.

President Bush: Thank you.

Williams: Are you frustrated that more of the good economic news isn't front and center these days?

President Bush: A little bit, but I also think it's important to understand why people don't see or don't feel the improved economy. We do have a strong economy. It's third quarter growth was great.

We've added 4.5 million new jobs since April of 2003. Home ownership's at an all-time high. Small businesses are flourishing. I mean, this economy is good. And it's strong.

And yet some feel disconnected. Partially, it really does speak to the need for us to make sure our education system is such that people are continually — have the opportunity to get the skills necessary to fill the higher paying, better jobs that are emerging in our economy. But I'm pleased with it.

And the question is how do we keep growth going? One is to be fiscally sound with the people's money. Secondly, it's not to raise the taxes on the people. Thirdly, is to continue to press for legal reform and regulatory reform. Fourthly, is to continue to work with Congress to come up with rationale policy for energy.

I mean, the Katrina and Rita storms were a wakeup call for energy. Gas prices spiked. They're down now because I was able to take off some regulations off gasoline that enabled us to be able to import European gasoline to help make up the difference for the down refineries. But we got just a wakeup call. And we've got to be rational. And I think we can — I know we can do so in a way that protects our environment.

Williams: There's one estimate that 6 million Americans may request financial assistance just to stay warm...

President Bush: Heat? Yeah, we'll work with Congress on that, there certainly is. 

Williams: Can we afford that? Can we afford to help those people?

President Bush: Well, we'll have to see what the — yeah, I mean, we're going to have help them. If they can't afford energy — I mean, to heat their homes, we'll do the best we can to work with Congress to help them.

Williams: How would you sum up — I've been given the signal — How would you sum up your reception here in Philadelphia today? And will you keep doing this, having these conversations?

President Bush: I will. I'll keep taking my message to the people in a variety of formats. It's one way for me to be able to communicate directly with people. And, I unfortunately don't get to edit what's on your newscast.

On the other hand, I do know that by giving a speech that's broadcast say, n some of these channels that broadcast speeches, more and more people will be able to hear my side of the story, which is very important for the president to be able to do. And I enjoy it. I enjoy getting out and being with — I know — listen, in the audience, I realize everybody didn't agree with me. But that's — I'm confident in my message. And I am anxious to be able to talk to those that, you know, are willing to listen. I thought the reception was warm. And I appreciated it.

Williams: And finally about your life, we joked about this earlier. But you, because 9/11 happened on your watch, you are living with the tightest security around any president in American history. How have you learned to live with that with so few freedoms to go out and, as you said this morning, to Christmas shop and things like that?

President Bush: I think everything is relative. Well, I know everything is relative. And so therefore when I'm able to get on my mountain bike and ride after church at Quantico, it was — it just meant a lot to me.

The other thing is I take great comfort in my life from my family and my friends. And I've got a lot of great buddies. I got a lot of friends I grew up with in Texas and a lot of friends I went to college with. And when they come to Washington D.C., which they do quite frequently, it's — you know, it's fun to hang around and to shoot the breeze.

They don't have agendas. If they think something's wrong they'll tell me. It's very relaxing. And it's a way for me to, you know, keep my feet on the ground.

Williams: So, you don't worry about a shortage of people willing to speak truth to power?

President Bush: No, not at all — particularly these people, I mean, some of whom you know are quite straightforward. But on the other hand, they also understand that they can play a great role, you know, in helping me — allowing me to maintain a perspective. Listen, friends are just a vital part of my life.

And there's nothing neater than showing, or sharing, the White House experience with people you're comfortable with. And it's a fantastic experience by the way. I like to make decisions. As you know, I'm willing to stand by my decisions. Some don't like that aspect about my presidency. But nevertheless, that's just the way I am.

And it's an honor to represent the country. We are a fabulous nation, with great principles and wonderful people. And it's unbelievably exciting to represent America around the world and to call upon the compassion here at home.

Williams: Thank you, Mr. President.

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